I recently recorded a 40 minute video guide on the ins and outs of a TvP hellion marine opening to help you establish control over the game and give yourself a chance to pick up a win on the way to establishing a stable midgame scenario.
The video is divided into four parts:
The basic concept of the build and what it's trying to achieve.
The build order.
Tactics
Transitions.
The video is primarily focused on presenting small variations of the build and helping you make the right decision on which of these to use depending on what information you get. It can be quite detailed at times, so if you're simply looking for an A B C build order this video probably isn't what you're looking for.
Isnt this build just one base allin? I mean - you rely on making serious damage to your enemy, if you fail at this, then you are playing with big disadvantage. There is a reason people no longer play 2rax openings but they more likely want to 1rax fe or 14cc or double cc. Because they dont want to rely on enemy making mistakes but rather improving they gameplay.
Anyway I long time ago saw the more safe variation of this build with faster expand done by Thorzain, which was something like:
reactor rax
reactor factory
CC
starport
Everything on 1 gas. Giving you double marine and double hellion production, and then possibility to deny protoss expand (this build is from MC 1gate FE era WoL)
PS. Am I alone or I really dont like this new trend when people make guides on youtube. I would more likely read build orders and transitions instead of watching 40min yt video which is buffering years.
On September 10 2013 20:22 Vipermagi wrote: Isnt this build just one base allin? I mean - you rely on making serious damage to your enemy, if you fail at this, then you are playing with big disadvantage. There is a reason people no longer play 2rax openings but they more likely want to 1rax fe or 14cc or double cc. Because they dont want to rely on enemy making mistakes but rather improving they gameplay.
Anyway I long time ago saw the more safe variation of this build with faster expand done by Thorzain, which was something like:
reactor rax
reactor factory
CC
starport
Everything on 1 gas. Giving you double marine and double hellion production, and then possibility to deny protoss expand (this build is from MC 1gate FE era WoL)
PS. Am I alone or I really dont like this new trend when people make guides on youtube. I would more likely read build orders and transitions instead of watching 40min yt video which is buffering years.
No.
Although it's nice of OP to create a guide, please include replay. There is so much a vid can show, replay show a lot more and gives the reader freedom to focus on whatever he wants.
Maybe lighten up a bit. There are a lot of people that like this kind of thing and I for one would rather have too much info out there than not enough. If YouTube videos aren't your thing just click back and go check out some of the other great build order threads here and everyone's happy. Don't try to belittle what this man's trying to do. I'm sure a lot of people will get some value out of this.
Khyira,
Nice work man! I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate this!
@Norseman I have no problem with adding yt videos to improve / help the guides. My problem with this one is that I prefer more to read guides, watch replays and try myself, instead of watch and hear yt style.
There are no replays included which I could analyse myself. (Isnt threads with [g] suppose to have them?) There is no build order listed, so I need to scroll 40minutes long yt video to find it. And I dont know where transitions are in this video??
So yeah, I cant simply stand the way this guide is shown even if this guide is super good or whateva.
If YouTube videos aren't your thing just click back and go check out some of the other great build order threads here and everyone's happy
Yeah, so if every new guide here will be posted on yt, instead of written, you telling me that I should search for some old great build orders? fun
I really liked the video. However, the most standard opening in TvP nowadays are some kind of 1 rax reactor expand. The reactor is built to make sure you have enough marines to counter proxy oracles.
I'm not sure but I think that you die instantly to a proxy oracle with this build?
This looks really fun so I will definitely try this!
On September 11 2013 18:42 Kvassten wrote: I really liked the video. However, the most standard opening in TvP nowadays are some kind of 1 rax reactor expand. The reactor is built to make sure you have enough marines to counter proxy oracles.
I'm not sure but I think that you die instantly to a proxy oracle with this build?
This looks really fun so I will definitely try this!
The build scv scouts off 14 supply so you should have a very good indication of proxy stargate, and you have 5 marines just past the 5 minute mark to defend a single base, so you should be fine. Keep your scv out on the map so you can spot potential zealot and later stalker support for the oracle, in which case you might want to add a bunker. Trickery is nice but if you end up facing a dedicated protoss all in, you don't really have to hide the fact that your cc is late and you can therefore easily give up trying to hold forward positions and perhaps even the attack itself.
It takes 6 marines to kill an oracle in a direct engagement (fastest proxy oracle hits your base 5:15 I think) but yeah I guess that you have enough time to scout for these kind of all ins
On September 11 2013 22:05 Kvassten wrote: It takes 6 marines to kill an oracle in a direct engagement (fastest proxy oracle hits your base 5:15 I think) but yeah I guess that you have enough time to scout for these kind of all ins
Yeah and you will have approximitely that when the first oracle (assuming he goes stargate before msc and warpgate) enters the base. If you scouted properly and noticed he had 6 probes mining gas and also that he didnt start a MSC/warpgate/anything from gateway, you can start a widowmine rather than a hellion, which will finish before the 2nd oracle enters your base. Note that this is not like THE perfect counter to Oracles, since technically you are rather even on economy, but it shouldn't be an autoloss.
Well interesting, I will try, but my main problem is how good some Protoss are with their Gate Expand ans Stalkers early, with only 1 or 2 Stalkers + MotherCore some of them go out to push until I got Bunkers, and that stupid thing let me behind so many times on macro, or vulnerable to the Oracles comming later because lack of Marines