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On July 20 2016 14:45 Rebs wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So many "misunderstandings", I wonder when the common denominator becomes apparent.
Also for all the aggression that people show you, Ive never once seen anyone insult you, but you seem to have no problem doing it, especially after occupying some false moral high ground. Anyway dont want to bait you anything, just some sincere non aggressive observation. I hope there is no misunderstanding regarding this.
As for E-league, I guess its pertinant to point out Thorin here because he summarized in this case anyway, quite reasonably. It hurts that SK are not playing but the appropriate precendent has been set. + Show Spoiler [Thorin] + Maybe you're right and I don't understand the subculture of CSGO players, I frequent a lot of forums and this doesn't happen anywhere else, though. Even on the politics threads, people are generally more reasonable.
Nonetheless I watched Thorin's video yesterday before I even read Yamato's response and it was insightful.
On July 20 2016 18:40 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2016 14:02 Djzapz wrote: Anyway, I can appreciate that you think you're awesme. Good job you. I'm sorry I was wildly controversial. What the fuck even. I used to appreciate this forum for CSGO content because it didn't have the irritating people you get on HLTV and these other communities. RIP. You weren't "controversial". You wrote something that resembled as a rant, was ambiguous, and potentially could be interpreted in different ways (and as yamato follows quite closely what you call the "politics", that's not surprising he actually addressed that part). Of course, when you say it's bullshit, it's quite not a big stretch to think you actually consider this a bad decision by E-League and so on. Don't be surprised that people talk about that, and if that's not what you meant, then precise it. And indeed, we're not on HLTV, that doesn't mean you can discredit anyone's post just because you feel irritated. I didn't discredit his post, merely disliked his accusatory tone. In my area of expertise, at work when someone says something that could be construed as untrue or ignorant, I talk to them. I don't get passive aggressive. For what it's worth I agree with the content of his post and I'm sorry my post was ambiguous. It was indeed a rant, though, and I think it's a very unfortunate state of affairs.
Anyway, sorry if I was overreacting. I barely have time to watch CS anymore and I find it very frustrating that essentially the potential for the best games just got wrecked over an org swap, whether it was justified or not by the rules of the tournament.
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Bad interlacing on stream :X
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that run-boost no scope from kenny was pretty sexy
GG Fnatic
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What the fuck is Thoorin on about? Devil was the igl in LDLC white rofl.
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Man Krimz looks like a baby without his adolascent viking beard... Sadface.
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seeing these baguettes crumble is making me hungry
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That run boost was pure gold.
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that last round was devil's stint at nv in a nutshell
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France9034 Posts
So, EnVy roster change seems pretty inevitable right now..
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On the topic of SK.... it's stupid that players can expect to change teams and still maintain their league positions. Doesn't happen in any other sport. They should even have lost legend status for the major.
They want to get paid huge salaries, but provide absolutely nothing to the teams they play for. Stupid if you ask me.
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France9034 Posts
On July 22 2016 05:17 foxmeep wrote: On the topic of SK.... it's stupid that players can expect to change teams and still maintain their league positions. Doesn't happen in any other sport. They should even have lost legend status for the major.
They want to get paid huge salaries, but provide absolutely nothing to the teams they play for. Stupid if you ask me.
What?
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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On July 22 2016 05:20 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 05:17 foxmeep wrote: On the topic of SK.... it's stupid that players can expect to change teams and still maintain their league positions. Doesn't happen in any other sport. They should even have lost legend status for the major.
They want to get paid huge salaries, but provide absolutely nothing to the teams they play for. Stupid if you ask me. What?
As in, they play for LG and expect to just walk away with all the achievements as theirs. When in actual fact they belong to LG, because they played for LG.
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France9034 Posts
Well, LG was the framework, but it's actually the players that went on the server and clinched the titles.
Not even considering the fact that LG didn't appear as a great org in the light of their dispute with SK.
Overall, to say the players bring nothing to the team is quite wrong. They bring everything. An org doesn't exist in a game without players. Players can still exist without an org.
That's exactly why the seeds for the major go to player cores, and not to orgs, which I think is a good thing. And the fact it works differently in traditional sports is clearly not an argument that's going to convince me. Trying to look like traditional sports is wrong on many accounts. This one is debatable, but I feel it's the same.
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On July 22 2016 05:17 foxmeep wrote: On the topic of SK.... it's stupid that players can expect to change teams and still maintain their league positions. Doesn't happen in any other sport. They should even have lost legend status for the major.
They want to get paid huge salaries, but provide absolutely nothing to the teams they play for. Stupid if you ask me.
They wont lose legend status because in Valves system the spot belongs to the players 3 out 5 rule. Its not about what should be wrong or right. Its what the rules are.
Additionally E-league is an ongoing tournament so an org change while the league is ongoing is obviously wrong. So they lost their spot. That they made a hoopla out of it was stupid of the SK players but you will notice that after someone probably explained it to them while they probably werent happy,they did shutup about it.
However changing orgs between majors doesnt seem like a big issue to me. Even the traditional sports argument would align with changing orgs as not being really a problem between events.
Also your reaction is rather severe. Generally its always players that have been severely shafted by the organizations. But it doesnt seem like you are to versed on the history of esports. CS in particular ...
And its not like these players are not providing nothing to the organizations they are playing for. They are winning.. lol. What do you want them to do ? Do a naked dance and sacrifice a goat to their orgs every week for their "fat salaries"?
Btw for LG was like piss minimum wage money without having to pay rent. If you offered them the living conditions they had to someone from the West they wouldve been like "fuck off."
So yes players do some dumb shit, its a maturing thing for everyone and not everyone has the mentorship or maturity that you should have.
But give them some credit..
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France9034 Posts
They're competing for titles, that would bring prestige to the name of the org. Some of them are bringing hype and exposure (snarky people could point at Cloud9 for that heh). Etc.
I wouldn't think G2 would have sold their lineup for such a high fee if they "brought nothing to the teams".
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On July 22 2016 05:32 Ragnarork wrote: Well, LG was the framework, but it's actually the players that went on the server and clinched the titles.
Not even considering the fact that LG didn't appear as a great org in the light of their dispute with SK.
Overall, to say the players bring nothing to the team is quite wrong. They bring everything. An org doesn't exist in a game without players. Players can still exist without an org.
That's exactly why the seeds for the major go to player cores, and not to orgs, which I think is a good thing. And the fact it works differently in traditional sports is clearly not an argument that's going to convince me. Trying to look like traditional sports is wrong on many accounts. This one is debatable, but I feel it's the same.
But what if four of LG went to SK, and one guy stayed?
Or three and two?
I get that player core is great for viewers, but from a business perspective it makes no sense.
And that's the whole reason for the LG/SK mess. Because instead of properly acquiring the roster and their league positions from LG, they simply tried to poach the players.
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On July 22 2016 05:52 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 05:32 Ragnarork wrote: Well, LG was the framework, but it's actually the players that went on the server and clinched the titles.
Not even considering the fact that LG didn't appear as a great org in the light of their dispute with SK.
Overall, to say the players bring nothing to the team is quite wrong. They bring everything. An org doesn't exist in a game without players. Players can still exist without an org.
That's exactly why the seeds for the major go to player cores, and not to orgs, which I think is a good thing. And the fact it works differently in traditional sports is clearly not an argument that's going to convince me. Trying to look like traditional sports is wrong on many accounts. This one is debatable, but I feel it's the same. But what if four of LG went to SK, and one guy stayed? Or three and two? I get that player core is great for viewers, but from a business perspective it makes no sense. And that's the whole reason for the LG/SK mess. Because instead of properly acquiring the roster and their league positions from LG, they simply tried to poach the players.
I guess what we all can take from that SK case is that CLEAR rules are most important.
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On July 22 2016 05:52 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 05:32 Ragnarork wrote: Well, LG was the framework, but it's actually the players that went on the server and clinched the titles.
Not even considering the fact that LG didn't appear as a great org in the light of their dispute with SK.
Overall, to say the players bring nothing to the team is quite wrong. They bring everything. An org doesn't exist in a game without players. Players can still exist without an org.
That's exactly why the seeds for the major go to player cores, and not to orgs, which I think is a good thing. And the fact it works differently in traditional sports is clearly not an argument that's going to convince me. Trying to look like traditional sports is wrong on many accounts. This one is debatable, but I feel it's the same. But what if four of LG went to SK, and one guy stayed? Or three and two? I get that player core is great for viewers, but from a business perspective it makes no sense. And that's the whole reason for the LG/SK mess. Because instead of properly acquiring the roster and their league positions from LG, they simply tried to poach the players.
Then the 3 players hold the spot. End of story.
And again I dont think you have any idea about the details of the situation which is why you seem to have just made assumptions and decided where you stand. Unfortunately for you I cba to explain it. Maybe someone else will.
Also there is so much wrong with the business perspective line its giving me a headache just thinking about it, so I will stop doing so.
On July 22 2016 05:55 tenacity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2016 05:52 foxmeep wrote:On July 22 2016 05:32 Ragnarork wrote: Well, LG was the framework, but it's actually the players that went on the server and clinched the titles.
Not even considering the fact that LG didn't appear as a great org in the light of their dispute with SK.
Overall, to say the players bring nothing to the team is quite wrong. They bring everything. An org doesn't exist in a game without players. Players can still exist without an org.
That's exactly why the seeds for the major go to player cores, and not to orgs, which I think is a good thing. And the fact it works differently in traditional sports is clearly not an argument that's going to convince me. Trying to look like traditional sports is wrong on many accounts. This one is debatable, but I feel it's the same. But what if four of LG went to SK, and one guy stayed? Or three and two? I get that player core is great for viewers, but from a business perspective it makes no sense. And that's the whole reason for the LG/SK mess. Because instead of properly acquiring the roster and their league positions from LG, they simply tried to poach the players. I guess what we all can take from that SK case is that CLEAR rules are most important.
The rules were clear. The drama has been generated for pretty much no reason except for the fact that the SK players and fans were upset.
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shroud really deserves a good team.
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