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On October 20 2012 10:03 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 10:00 JacobShock wrote: hanging out on this and other sc2 related forums have really been bumming me out lately. Yeah, I don't know why all these people think these threads are necessary. Things were fine last week, and nothing has changed since last week.
no, things have never never been fine, it's just that nobody spoke about it until destiny broke out and started telling statements that many agreed upon for a long time. Nothing may have changed over the past week, but that doesn't mean people haven't been hiding this for over a year or more.
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On October 20 2012 10:03 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 10:00 JacobShock wrote: hanging out on this and other sc2 related forums have really been bumming me out lately. Yeah, I don't know why all these people think these threads are necessary. Things were fine last week, and nothing has changed since last week.
Things have not been fine for a long time. People are just starting to realize that it's time to talk about it.
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I respect the afford but this is a load of crap, sorry to say.
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Another one?
Anyway it's all the same stuff a lot have been preaching including myself:
a) show our approval with our wallets of what products we like and don't b) at the end of the day, Blizzard is running it to whatever dismay
As for hitpoint,
Starting to realize? Look there is two angles to this. You have either a vocal minority where time and time again you see other people loathe and then you have people speaking up on what everyone else is thinking. It doesn't necessarily have to be said and in many times its crude and rude.
This isn't revolutionary.
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Well sc2 might not have been dying but at least the community is ensuring it's rapid decline by starting this nonsensical negative publicity campaign. I bet the boards for LoL and dota are just rolling over laughing at how the sc2 community is essentially destroying their own game by publicly declaring it's death and everything that is wrong with it in thread after thread. I am looking forward to six months from now when we can actually have the "how the community killed hots" thread.
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In an economics sense everyone has already reached their willingness to pay on sc2, so saying contribute more money is not really valid unless there is some grounding reason for the increase in demand. The influx of kespa teams is cool but unless they create revolutionary (and more entertaining) strategies, or promote the game in some other way viewership wont grow by very much. The game needs to be more exciting in some way in order to entice more players and viewers, hopefully with Hots, which then falls on blizzards shoulders. Having the current consumer base simply pay more is not growing esports.
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I know I'm just one person.
"It has to start somewhere, what better place than here, what better time than now?"
I disable ads for any stream I watch. I sub to GSL, I sub or get HD streams when I am going to be watching, I have MLG Gold(thought I don't feel I'm getting my moneys worth here, hint hint MLG).
I will get HotS, it's inevitable. I would be much happier camper if blizz would step up their game as well.
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You explain the principles of supply and demand and then throw it out the window and tell the consumer to pay for goods they wouldn't be otherwise willing to buy. It's not up to us as the consumer to 'fix' this problem. We can provide feedback to tell companies what we like but it is up to them to provide a product at a price people are willing to pay. What the industry lacks is an entrepreneur that can make sense of all the available information and has the business acumen and strength of will to persist in an emerging industry. This can be said not only for the organisations running events but for team owners as well.
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The thing is the demographic being served by esports content, 18-35 year old computer humping males, have problems in both the willing and able parts of demand. We're notoriously advertising averse, we love our adblocker, entering a credit card number to get past a paywall when there are a ton of other tournaments, not to mention tons of other distractions, takes energy we'd rather spend just clicking on the next tourney down the list. We also spend money stupidly fast, and on inane quick-fix type shit. We not only don't want to watch commercials, a lot of us between 18-25 especially have almost no money because of school.
Tournaments are fighting against every other free-time-raping substitute targeted towards us. Games, extreme and traditional sports, cars, clothes, computers, hookers are all competing against our little tournament organizers. OP is right, the only people involved in SC2 that can do anything are Blizzard, because they have the capital. MLG can't do anything, because they've had to sell themselves to VCs to be able to scale with a floundering demand, and VCs are notorious for being laser-focused on immediate net profit. GSL has zero interest from the people who matter most, koreans, so no korean companies besides smaller ones like Hot6 give a fuck.
It will take a fuck ton of capital to market everything correctly, which only Blizzard has. It will also take them catering to our laziness, i.e. go fucking free to play already and go balls to the wall monetizing cosmetics and use the arcade to launch professional content created within the engine, complete with demos and trailers and system specs and an integrated metascore rating. Make the interface have a giant fucking unignorable chat box that takes up all the space a bunch of useless buttons currently occupy. The buttons are just fucking crazy in the interface right now, I mean seriously blizzard, it's like you think we haven't been playing games for a decade and can't click on a fucking windows-desktop size icon!
Destroy the barriers to entry for being social, tying into social media, featuring streams and prominent youtube videos like the tempo songs in the opening part of the client. Actually celebrate this fantastic game instead of just treating it like a boot-strapped-as-fuck 5 man venture with an ancient name a few people have heard of.
EDIT: Holy fucking rant, batman.
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On October 20 2012 09:45 VTAzz wrote: things that ruined the game:
roaches forcefields warpgates mules infestors colossus
bad game design. Relevant points of your post:
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No, they're very much perfect substitutes.
They fall under the tree entertainment video gaming rts Not only is one cheaper, it is also superior for casual play. The theory of supply and demand is holding true in the market of esports. That $20 is being saved for esports. It just happens to be LoL and Dota.
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There's no math in this post. You just explained basic economic principles that you can learn in any intro course
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On October 20 2012 09:47 P7GAB wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 09:45 VTAzz wrote: things that ruined the game:
roaches forcefields warpgates mules infestors colossus
bad game design. don't leave out maruaders I would add queens
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On October 20 2012 09:45 VTAzz wrote: things that ruined the game:
roaches forcefields warpgates mules infestors colossus
bad game design. And marauders
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Finland5201 Posts
Regarding actual economics, if the title intrigued that there might be some value in reading your post, I don't think there is any
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Maybe growth would continue if HotS wasn't more of the increasingly-boring-same. But it is. So it'll be mildly refreshing to some for a time before getting back into the ever so stagnant metagame where even though things do change, they remain uninteresting, initially to the untrained eye - but as time goes on, it also gets boring to the experienced player because the game severely lacks any kind of elegance. As a spectator "sport" it runs off of eye candy and personalities. The former is doing fine, the latter requires more attention. Occidentals are losing interest in Koreans and our players are sinking.
SC is a game that we've seen the end of, even though not all the strategies have been exhausted (obviously). After 12 years of BW, I could still sit and watch a game in which one of the players used a brand new, custom made strategy which was not built around how to counter a certain set of units, but rather it was built around the intricacies of a map, weaknesses of the other player's playstyle, but more importantly the way it played out was interesting. This is not the case in SC2. As OP said, a colossus is always going to be a colossus - it can never be an interesting unit. It can kill shit and people will go "oooh", but in the end it's predictable and uninteresting. Even when new strategies come out, they would be just as interesting if they were written on paper.
So no, it's not our fault in the slightest. We did our part. We bought the game in great numbers, we watched streams like crazy, at least for some of us until we got bored. But if the game wasn't given much longevity, and the expansion is obviously headed to be boring and uninspired, we're not to blame for SC2's possibly impending "recession", so to speak.
Pardon me for being judgmental, but the game who killed BW had better be good. And it isn't. It was excellent on the surface, but like I said, it's not elegant. It's explosive in all the wrong ways. And I've given up hope. But who knows.
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United States32533 Posts
I didn't think there was anything worse than people who took economics in undergrad thinking they understood economics, but apparently there is.
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For something to grow it needs to have substantial & growing player base in order to generate interests.
Unfortunately sc2 is not the game for everyone. It is not even the game for most people. RTS in general caters to the more niche, more hardcore audiences.
We can still remain relevant and generate interests, but unless we figure out a way to cater to the more casual playerbase our growth will always be limited.
And unfortunately, I don't see any viable options for an RTS based games to garner interests to casual gamers today
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There are too many of these threads.
LOL Waxangel.
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