On September 12 2007 02:56 pooper-scooper wrote: Don't forget, he ALSO blocks the direct route to mineral patches. You didn't take this into account.
Uhh... no, he blocks the outside so the probes can't get to nexus, so the probes are stuck between pylon and mineral patches...
I think he meant that since the pylon is now there its creating a longer mining path for the other probes around it.
No... the discussion earlier was about probes jumping OVER the pylon, if it was just a longer mining path: 1. No need to jump over 2. Huge waste of minerals
On September 12 2007 02:56 pooper-scooper wrote: Don't forget, he ALSO blocks the direct route to mineral patches. You didn't take this into account.
Uhh... no, he blocks the outside so the probes can't get to nexus, so the probes are stuck between pylon and mineral patches...
I think he meant that since the pylon is now there its creating a longer mining path for the other probes around it.
No... the discussion earlier was about probes jumping OVER the pylon, if it was just a longer mining path: 1. No need to jump over 2. Huge waste of minerals
i think XCetron interpreted pooper-scooper's post correctly...
On September 11 2007 14:23 SonuvBob wrote: Handy refund list: Upgrade cancel: 100%
Why do tosses fake air weapons instead of singularity in pvt then?
Micro, it's because air weapons only ties up 100/100 instead of 150/150.
and...
On September 11 2007 14:23 SonuvBob wrote: Handy refund list:
Building cancel: 75% Unit cancel: 100% Upgrade cancel: 100% Queued units when building is destroyed: 100% Queued upgrade when building is destroyed: 75%
Woah, never knew about qued upgrade when building destroyed. Thats really weird. I woudl've assumed you got back 100%
On September 11 2007 14:23 SonuvBob wrote: Handy refund list: Upgrade cancel: 100%
Why do tosses fake air weapons instead of singularity in pvt then?
Micro, it's because air weapons only ties up 100/100 instead of 150/150.
I was wondering... you delay the upgrade a moment to make it seem legit anyway. How do you use that extra money before you kill the scouting scv without it looking fishy?
and you put a Pylon at the Ps and where X is a mineral, would that actually slow down mining less than if you performed a regular manner Pylon? I remember in a PvP this occurred and it seriously seemed to slow the guy down.
On September 11 2007 14:23 SonuvBob wrote: Handy refund list: Upgrade cancel: 100%
Why do tosses fake air weapons instead of singularity in pvt then?
Micro, it's because air weapons only ties up 100/100 instead of 150/150.
I was wondering... you delay the upgrade a moment to make it seem legit anyway. How do you use that extra money before you kill the scouting scv without it looking fishy?
Have a pylon built in a corner of your base where you make your citadel or better yet have it some other random place so there's no chance of him scouting it.
On September 11 2007 13:09 BalloonFight wrote: Keep in mind that most players will get all probes out of the block but one, but that probably doesnt make a difference if you are still attacking it with the same amount of probes.
Why wouldnt it make a difference?
Because if its the same number of probes attacking it, that was tested by the OP, it doesnt matter if they are inside the manner pylon or it they are outside.
ts, you forgot that because of the manner pylon his probe production will be delayed, thus you will have more probes. more probes = more minerals = more zealots, etc.
There was a guy from duke university "Commentator" that posted a few videos in this thread about how to get probes out of manner pylon. I have them saved. (the links are dead though)
Anyways this is flawed. First of all even if you don't trap any probes it fucks up the return and gather, some probes may go behind the minerals to mine the ones that are blocked.
2nd, if he uses any probes to kill the pylon they waste time not mining as well.
3rd it depends on the map/position.
Here is another test to try.
Have yourself play out a build consisting of building only probes and pylons as fast as possible for 5 minutes.
Now have that same build manner pyloned to catch 3, 2, 1, and 0 probes.
See the difference at the end and compare them all.
(also any good scientist/experimenter will test the same thing a few times and take the average of that for final comparison.)
EDIT- Here is the gosu probe clip videos, I re-uploaded on youtube.
On September 11 2007 18:56 Piste wrote: Anyone still has that video which was posted by "Commentator" on the "Nal_Ra's anti manner pylon thread"? It wasn't available there anymore.
On September 12 2007 12:20 Equinox_kr wrote: A quick question: if the minerals are like so ...
...PP....... XXPPXXXXXX ...XX
and you put a Pylon at the Ps and where X is a mineral, would that actually slow down mining less than if you performed a regular manner Pylon? I remember in a PvP this occurred and it seriously seemed to slow the guy down.
Simple. This arrangement can't happen if the probes are all mining.
...PP....... XXPPXXXXXX ...XX
The probe in bold would not be in that location. For him to be there, the only mineral he can mine off of is the one below him and to the left on a diagonal, however, the probe to his left is already mining there. He will either stack up on the probe below him, or he will move to another patch.
The worst case scenario is:
...P..P....... XXPPXXXXXX ...XX
However, if that happens, just wait for the top right probe to take minerals back to the nexus and then put the pylon:
..P[ ]...... XXPPXXXXXX ...XX
You won't always get the chance to manner pylon. A good player may try to stop you by placing probes directly in your path. That said, if you get a chance to pull it off successfully, it can be very beneficial, especially if you play aggressively.
Yes, Pyloning those minerals will slow down mining, but I doubt it would be more than a manner Pylon. You've isolated the same minerals but haven't trapped anything.