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On December 11 2019 09:56 Entaro[AoV] wrote: Why is Rain not playing much starcraft recently? What does his future in SC look like?
The reason why Rain doesn't play Starcraft is very complex.
He is looking far into the future.
He wants to expand his career through other games.
Starcraft's malign fans say they are also tired.
Maybe he won't play Starcraft for a while.
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do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl
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On December 11 2019 12:58 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 09:56 Entaro[AoV] wrote: Why is Rain not playing much starcraft recently? What does his future in SC look like? The reason why Rain doesn't play Starcraft is very complex. He is looking far into the future. He wants to expand his career through other games. Starcraft's malign fans say they are also tired. Maybe he won't play Starcraft for a while.
This makes perfect sense considering Rain doesn't have to join the military.
Without that hanging over his head Rain has many options to pursue inside esports and maybe even other things like getting a girlfriend and maybe even starting a family.
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Why doesnt Rain have to join the military?
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On December 11 2019 14:18 Oya187 wrote: Why doesnt Rain have to join the military?
Rain donated half of his liver to his ailing father, and because of that he is permanently exempt from military service.
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On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"?
If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago.
Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to.
This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order.
English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi
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On December 11 2019 13:32 WCG2003 wrote: do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl
I don't think the popularity of those days is comparable to what There were no teenagers in those days who didn't know Starcraft.
Of course, I think the difference is big, too.
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On December 11 2019 13:52 Chris_Havoc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 12:58 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 11 2019 09:56 Entaro[AoV] wrote: Why is Rain not playing much starcraft recently? What does his future in SC look like? The reason why Rain doesn't play Starcraft is very complex. He is looking far into the future. He wants to expand his career through other games. Starcraft's malign fans say they are also tired. Maybe he won't play Starcraft for a while. This makes perfect sense considering Rain doesn't have to join the military. Without that hanging over his head Rain has many options to pursue inside esports and maybe even other things like getting a girlfriend and maybe even starting a family.
That's right, so he's going to try a new challenge.
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On December 11 2019 15:40 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"? If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago. Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to. This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order. English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi
I ranked them.
It was just a reason to play an introductory role to foreigners.
To be honest, I don't know the list you showed me.
After all, their recognition, their achievements, and career-highs, must support them.
There's a lot of talk about who's actually the best protoss gamer in Bisu, JangBi and Stork.
Among them, many people think Bisu is the best because he was a pioneer who changed the paradigm of Z vs. P.
To be honest, given the list you mentioned,
How many of Zerg amateur's TOP 5 do you think are memorable?
Many foreigners. No, not only foreigners but also Koreans think of Zerg amateur, but mostly "Soma" and "Zelot." I think he knows the degree of "iffy."
Amateurs will have different opinions.
I know that "Scan" you have a great deal of awareness among foreigners. Because you were communicating with foreigners through Twitch.
I would like to introduce Korean amateurs to foreigners.
"Zerg" amateurs thought "Soma," "Zelot" and "Pitbulterrier" were appropriate.
Because, as I said, "Soma" doesn't need to be explained. "Zelot" is the most visible player in the recent ASL. "Pitbulterrier" won the amateur league hosted by "Bisu" and passed on what you said was "12 pool opening" to "Soma."
I particularly appreciated this part. Because the process of "Soma" struggling with Terran's "111"build, the process of anger. One day, in the midst of a sudden and repeated defeat, I kept trying "2Hatchery Mutal" and finally changed the paradigm of "T vs. Z," all watching live. I appreciated the work of "Pitbullterrier."
And when I introduce Terran Amateur, I thought #1 Shinee, #2 Byul, #3 Scan.
But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop."
Frankly speaking, I agree that the strongest Protoss amateurs are "KEH."
But I don't want to introduce him to foreigners when I think of his personality. So I excluded it.
The same goes for "P Sang-hyun, Kim Han-byul." They were actually mentioned in gamers' voice chatting and picked as amateurs to be ignored along with "KEH."
Even "Kali" has been told that the ACS and ASL will not be able to participate in the game in the future as circumstantial evidence of illegal gambling has been detected.
I don't want to judge players by their skills alone.
No matter how good the players are, if they fail to prove themselves in a competition, it will be meaningless.
Also, I think it is quite shameful to introduce a gamer with a bad personality just because he is good at it.
The Korean proverb says, "As rice ripens, it bows down."
No matter how good they are, they mean nothing if they can't prove it at the competition and don't have courtesy.
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On December 12 2019 09:37 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 15:40 LaStScan wrote:On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"? If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago. Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to. This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order. English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi I ranked them. It was just a reason to play an introductory role to foreigners. To be honest, I don't know the list you showed me. After all, their recognition, their achievements, and career-highs, must support them. There's a lot of talk about who's actually the best protoss gamer in Bisu, JangBi and Stork. Among them, many people think Bisu is the best because he was a pioneer who changed the paradigm of Z vs. P. To be honest, given the list you mentioned, How many of Zerg amateur's TOP 5 do you think are memorable? Many foreigners. No, not only foreigners but also Koreans think of Zerg amateur, but mostly "Soma" and "Zelot." I think he knows the degree of "iffy." Amateurs will have different opinions. I know that "Scan" you have a great deal of awareness among foreigners. Because you were communicating with foreigners through Twitch. I would like to introduce Korean amateurs to foreigners. "Zerg" amateurs thought "Soma," "Zelot" and "Pitbulterrier" were appropriate. Because, as I said, "Soma" doesn't need to be explained. "Zelot" is the most visible player in the recent ASL. "Pitbulterrier" won the amateur league hosted by "Bisu" and passed on what you said was "12 pool opening" to "Soma." I particularly appreciated this part. Because the process of "Soma" struggling with Terran's "111"build, the process of anger. One day, in the midst of a sudden and repeated defeat, I kept trying "2Hatchery Mutal" and finally changed the paradigm of "T vs. Z," all watching live. I appreciated the work of "Pitbullterrier." And when I introduce Terran Amateur, I thought #1 Shinee, #2 Byul, #3 Scan. But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop." Frankly speaking, I agree that the strongest Protoss amateurs are "KEH." But I don't want to introduce him to foreigners when I think of his personality. So I excluded it. The same goes for "P Sang-hyun, Kim Han-byul." They were actually mentioned in gamers' voice chatting and picked as amateurs to be ignored along with "KEH." Even "Kali" has been told that the ACS and ASL will not be able to participate in the game in the future as circumstantial evidence of illegal gambling has been detected. I don't want to judge players by their skills alone. No matter how good the players are, if they fail to prove themselves in a competition, it will be meaningless. Also, I think it is quite shameful to introduce a gamer with a bad personality just because he is good at it. The Korean proverb says, "As rice ripens, it bows down." No matter how good they are, they mean nothing if they can't prove it at the competition and don't have courtesy.
I got the list from ygosu when i searched "아마추어."
I don't know every single drama of amateurs that were made in the past, but I agree with you that players who have shown bad reputation should not be mentioned.
Currently Bishop seems doing well with his TvT and he is able to compete vs Shinee (although I only saw 1 game on sylphid). That's a one good step to start with but beating one specific player doesn't mean he has significantly improved.
We'll need to watch his improvement more and see his plays in the tournament.
Pitbull is doing great, he said he's going to put all of his effort in SC before he gets too old and stops playing SC early 2019. He would like to achieve something just like what Soma did for past 2 years.
btw, what do you mean of this sentences?
But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop."
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On December 12 2019 10:42 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 09:37 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 11 2019 15:40 LaStScan wrote:On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"? If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago. Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to. This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order. English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi I ranked them. It was just a reason to play an introductory role to foreigners. To be honest, I don't know the list you showed me. After all, their recognition, their achievements, and career-highs, must support them. There's a lot of talk about who's actually the best protoss gamer in Bisu, JangBi and Stork. Among them, many people think Bisu is the best because he was a pioneer who changed the paradigm of Z vs. P. To be honest, given the list you mentioned, How many of Zerg amateur's TOP 5 do you think are memorable? Many foreigners. No, not only foreigners but also Koreans think of Zerg amateur, but mostly "Soma" and "Zelot." I think he knows the degree of "iffy." Amateurs will have different opinions. I know that "Scan" you have a great deal of awareness among foreigners. Because you were communicating with foreigners through Twitch. I would like to introduce Korean amateurs to foreigners. "Zerg" amateurs thought "Soma," "Zelot" and "Pitbulterrier" were appropriate. Because, as I said, "Soma" doesn't need to be explained. "Zelot" is the most visible player in the recent ASL. "Pitbulterrier" won the amateur league hosted by "Bisu" and passed on what you said was "12 pool opening" to "Soma." I particularly appreciated this part. Because the process of "Soma" struggling with Terran's "111"build, the process of anger. One day, in the midst of a sudden and repeated defeat, I kept trying "2Hatchery Mutal" and finally changed the paradigm of "T vs. Z," all watching live. I appreciated the work of "Pitbullterrier." And when I introduce Terran Amateur, I thought #1 Shinee, #2 Byul, #3 Scan. But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop." Frankly speaking, I agree that the strongest Protoss amateurs are "KEH." But I don't want to introduce him to foreigners when I think of his personality. So I excluded it. The same goes for "P Sang-hyun, Kim Han-byul." They were actually mentioned in gamers' voice chatting and picked as amateurs to be ignored along with "KEH." Even "Kali" has been told that the ACS and ASL will not be able to participate in the game in the future as circumstantial evidence of illegal gambling has been detected. I don't want to judge players by their skills alone. No matter how good the players are, if they fail to prove themselves in a competition, it will be meaningless. Also, I think it is quite shameful to introduce a gamer with a bad personality just because he is good at it. The Korean proverb says, "As rice ripens, it bows down." No matter how good they are, they mean nothing if they can't prove it at the competition and don't have courtesy. I got the list from ygosu when i searched "아마추어." I don't know every single drama of amateurs that were made in the past, but I agree with you that players who have shown bad reputation should not be mentioned. Currently Bishop seems doing well with his TvT and he is able to compete vs Shinee (although I only saw 1 game on sylphid). That's a one good step to start with but beating one specific player doesn't mean he has significantly improved. We'll need to watch his improvement more and see his plays in the tournament. Pitbull is doing great, he said he's going to put all of his effort in SC before he gets too old and stops playing SC early 2019. He would like to achieve something just like what Soma did for past 2 years. btw, what do you mean of this sentences? Show nested quote +But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop."
That means you didn't comment separately because you are already a player known to many foreigners. #1 Shinee #2 Byul, #3 Bishop
If you were involved, #1 Shinee #2 Byul #3 Scan I would have typed it like this.
In addition, I agree with you.
That's why I think their ranking is.
Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Byul (강태완) , #3 Bishop (정민기)
I think.
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On December 12 2019 11:54 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 10:42 LaStScan wrote:On December 12 2019 09:37 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 11 2019 15:40 LaStScan wrote:On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"? If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago. Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to. This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order. English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi I ranked them. It was just a reason to play an introductory role to foreigners. To be honest, I don't know the list you showed me. After all, their recognition, their achievements, and career-highs, must support them. There's a lot of talk about who's actually the best protoss gamer in Bisu, JangBi and Stork. Among them, many people think Bisu is the best because he was a pioneer who changed the paradigm of Z vs. P. To be honest, given the list you mentioned, How many of Zerg amateur's TOP 5 do you think are memorable? Many foreigners. No, not only foreigners but also Koreans think of Zerg amateur, but mostly "Soma" and "Zelot." I think he knows the degree of "iffy." Amateurs will have different opinions. I know that "Scan" you have a great deal of awareness among foreigners. Because you were communicating with foreigners through Twitch. I would like to introduce Korean amateurs to foreigners. "Zerg" amateurs thought "Soma," "Zelot" and "Pitbulterrier" were appropriate. Because, as I said, "Soma" doesn't need to be explained. "Zelot" is the most visible player in the recent ASL. "Pitbulterrier" won the amateur league hosted by "Bisu" and passed on what you said was "12 pool opening" to "Soma." I particularly appreciated this part. Because the process of "Soma" struggling with Terran's "111"build, the process of anger. One day, in the midst of a sudden and repeated defeat, I kept trying "2Hatchery Mutal" and finally changed the paradigm of "T vs. Z," all watching live. I appreciated the work of "Pitbullterrier." And when I introduce Terran Amateur, I thought #1 Shinee, #2 Byul, #3 Scan. But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop." Frankly speaking, I agree that the strongest Protoss amateurs are "KEH." But I don't want to introduce him to foreigners when I think of his personality. So I excluded it. The same goes for "P Sang-hyun, Kim Han-byul." They were actually mentioned in gamers' voice chatting and picked as amateurs to be ignored along with "KEH." Even "Kali" has been told that the ACS and ASL will not be able to participate in the game in the future as circumstantial evidence of illegal gambling has been detected. I don't want to judge players by their skills alone. No matter how good the players are, if they fail to prove themselves in a competition, it will be meaningless. Also, I think it is quite shameful to introduce a gamer with a bad personality just because he is good at it. The Korean proverb says, "As rice ripens, it bows down." No matter how good they are, they mean nothing if they can't prove it at the competition and don't have courtesy. I got the list from ygosu when i searched "아마추어." I don't know every single drama of amateurs that were made in the past, but I agree with you that players who have shown bad reputation should not be mentioned. Currently Bishop seems doing well with his TvT and he is able to compete vs Shinee (although I only saw 1 game on sylphid). That's a one good step to start with but beating one specific player doesn't mean he has significantly improved. We'll need to watch his improvement more and see his plays in the tournament. Pitbull is doing great, he said he's going to put all of his effort in SC before he gets too old and stops playing SC early 2019. He would like to achieve something just like what Soma did for past 2 years. btw, what do you mean of this sentences? But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop." That means you didn't comment separately because you are already a player known to many foreigners. #1 Shinee #2 Byul, #3 Bishop If you were involved, #1 Shinee #2 Byul #3 Scan I would have typed it like this. In addition, I agree with you. That's why I think their ranking is. Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Byul (강태완) , #3 Bishop (정민기) I think. Okay, I understood clearly. Thanks for putting me in a 3rd spot of Terran list lol.
Btw, what do you think of Tinkle's level? I feel like you excluded or forgot about him. Or does have a bad reputation?
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51150 Posts
On December 11 2019 13:32 WCG2003 wrote: do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl
not the korean guy who's supposed to be responding, but viewer count comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt because while the golden era was all on cable television, asl/ksl is much more easily accessible through iptv/online streaming platforms so this skews/inflates numbers a lot.
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On December 12 2019 10:42 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 09:37 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 11 2019 15:40 LaStScan wrote:On December 10 2019 07:06 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 10 2019 00:30 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 13:46 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 09 2019 12:58 LaStScan wrote:On December 09 2019 02:50 Cruiser0929 wrote:On December 08 2019 16:08 f10eqq wrote: I think most people agree that Soma (박상현) is the #1 amateur player right now and another zerg, Zelot (서문지훈), is maybe #2. Who do koreans consider to be the best amateur Protoss and Terran players in korea? Zerg = #1 Soma (박상현) , #2 Zelot (서문지훈) , #3 Pitbullterrier (김대한) Protoss = #1 Mighty (이광용) Terran = #1 Shinee (샤이니) , #2 Bishop (정민기) , #3 Byul (강태완) The best as an amateur. I suppose I'm underrated for the list. Here is my perspective of top best amateurs. Zerg: Soma, yoon, ZeLoT Terran: Shinee, others are hard to put in a list due to the same level Protoss: KEH, Mighty(aka vmqkf), [FOX]Fresh "Yoon" had an early exit from the amateur competition organized by "Bisu," losing to "Song Jung-woo." But "Pitbulterrier" won by capturing "ssinz," "No Ji-ho" and "Yoon Soo-woong." "Yoon" is not in the upper rank of "Zelot." He has shown too little compared to "Zelot" Terran totally agrees with you. But if I were to rank it, Shinee, Bishop, and Byul. In fact, Shinee and the other two have wide gaps. Protoss's "KEH" shows the wrong personality and is being slaughtered on Starcraft 1. On the other hand, "Mighty" has grown in a great way, showing a good side in the "Starcraft end-of-life war" "KEH" is only playing king in the dark. That's why I decided that 'Mighty' is a better player. Yeah, I know about KEH's issue. vmqkf also has been doing well recently, but he told me he's planning to switch to teamplay fastest someday. yoon also performed badly on bisu's tourney just like me. However people who are playing competitive, they know what's hidden in the back. ZeLoT also admits yoon is 한수위(one step) ahead of him. For example, soma vs best on KSL4 map Overwatch, main base 3rd hatchery was extraordinary build opening and that is taught by yoon. Overall, career and what's showing on competition, Soma, ZeLoT, Shinee are the truth strong players. rest of them are still working on it or not interested to play competitive scene. I agree with you in general. But I have a question. As far as I know, the "2Hatchery Mutal" build order at T vs. Z was informed by "Pitbulterrier" to "soma." It is more accurate because he mentioned it in person. That "2Hatchery Mutal" changed the paradigm of T vs. Z. Many of the top players, including "Zero" and "Action," also sought advice on "Soma"dprp "2Hatchery Mutal." So what is the contribution of "Pitbuller"? If you are talking about 12 pool opening vs terran, that might be true because i've seen Pitbull doing 12 pool opening vs terran long ago. Current ZvT Guardian Hydra opening is inspired by me(I'm Scan) and taught ZeLoT about this build 6 months ago. You can confirm with him as you feel like to. This is what I found on ygosu and how people see player's strength in order. English translation of the list. + Show Spoiler +저그
1. Soma
2. 9MutaL[HyO]
3. yoon
4. Yerim2(aka: nongminzerg TSL2)
5. Wico`Someday (aka: DY, TOP5 amateur zerg)
6. ZeLoT
7. PitbullTerrier
8. 손경수 : 재야의 강자
9. Kali
10. pcs SsaL iffy : ZvZ ZvZ ZvT Gosu
테란
1. Shinee
2. ByuL
3. Tinkle
4. Scan : Hidden Gosu
5. Bishop
6. Ever)T(Prime
7. [NeOx]SeungSu (Aka: president`moon, ilikeoov)
8. Gaeko2[White]
9. 장재혁 :
?. 배호연
토스
1. KEH
2. vmqkf(aka: Mighty)
3. sSinz 박도현
4. 김한별 bongsil 방테 휘문 프상현 coolgg ErOs_Yangachi I ranked them. It was just a reason to play an introductory role to foreigners. To be honest, I don't know the list you showed me. After all, their recognition, their achievements, and career-highs, must support them. There's a lot of talk about who's actually the best protoss gamer in Bisu, JangBi and Stork. Among them, many people think Bisu is the best because he was a pioneer who changed the paradigm of Z vs. P. To be honest, given the list you mentioned, How many of Zerg amateur's TOP 5 do you think are memorable? Many foreigners. No, not only foreigners but also Koreans think of Zerg amateur, but mostly "Soma" and "Zelot." I think he knows the degree of "iffy." Amateurs will have different opinions. I know that "Scan" you have a great deal of awareness among foreigners. Because you were communicating with foreigners through Twitch. I would like to introduce Korean amateurs to foreigners. "Zerg" amateurs thought "Soma," "Zelot" and "Pitbulterrier" were appropriate. Because, as I said, "Soma" doesn't need to be explained. "Zelot" is the most visible player in the recent ASL. "Pitbulterrier" won the amateur league hosted by "Bisu" and passed on what you said was "12 pool opening" to "Soma." I particularly appreciated this part. Because the process of "Soma" struggling with Terran's "111"build, the process of anger. One day, in the midst of a sudden and repeated defeat, I kept trying "2Hatchery Mutal" and finally changed the paradigm of "T vs. Z," all watching live. I appreciated the work of "Pitbullterrier." And when I introduce Terran Amateur, I thought #1 Shinee, #2 Byul, #3 Scan. But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop." Frankly speaking, I agree that the strongest Protoss amateurs are "KEH." But I don't want to introduce him to foreigners when I think of his personality. So I excluded it. The same goes for "P Sang-hyun, Kim Han-byul." They were actually mentioned in gamers' voice chatting and picked as amateurs to be ignored along with "KEH." Even "Kali" has been told that the ACS and ASL will not be able to participate in the game in the future as circumstantial evidence of illegal gambling has been detected. I don't want to judge players by their skills alone. No matter how good the players are, if they fail to prove themselves in a competition, it will be meaningless. Also, I think it is quite shameful to introduce a gamer with a bad personality just because he is good at it. The Korean proverb says, "As rice ripens, it bows down." No matter how good they are, they mean nothing if they can't prove it at the competition and don't have courtesy. I got the list from ygosu when i searched "아마추어." I don't know every single drama of amateurs that were made in the past, but I agree with you that players who have shown bad reputation should not be mentioned. Currently Bishop seems doing well with his TvT and he is able to compete vs Shinee (although I only saw 1 game on sylphid). That's a one good step to start with but beating one specific player doesn't mean he has significantly improved. We'll need to watch his improvement more and see his plays in the tournament. Pitbull is doing great, he said he's going to put all of his effort in SC before he gets too old and stops playing SC early 2019. He would like to achieve something just like what Soma did for past 2 years. btw, what do you mean of this sentences? Show nested quote +But "Scan" you've only recommended "Bishop" because you've already been a known player to many foreigners. He has recently been doing well against "Shinee" and said "Light" is also a tough opponent in a showdown with "Bishop."
I know his reputation well because I've been listening to it.
Sadly, he didn't do a personal broadcast, so he left it off the list.
If he did a private broadcast, of course he'd be on the list.
same goes for Park Jae-hyun.
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On December 12 2019 18:52 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 13:32 WCG2003 wrote: do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl not the korean guy who's supposed to be responding, but viewer count comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt because while the golden era was all on cable television, asl/ksl is much more easily accessible through iptv/online streaming platforms so this skews/inflates numbers a lot.
yea i agree
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On December 12 2019 18:52 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2019 13:32 WCG2003 wrote: do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl not the korean guy who's supposed to be responding, but viewer count comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt because while the golden era was all on cable television, asl/ksl is much more easily accessible through iptv/online streaming platforms so this skews/inflates numbers a lot. but do you have any idea what the tv ratings were? even if it's not an apples to apples comparison i'm still curious what they were.
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On December 12 2019 22:54 WCG2003 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2019 18:52 GTR wrote:On December 11 2019 13:32 WCG2003 wrote: do you remember how many people on average used to watch proleague or msl/osl on television back in 2003-2011? wondering how it compares to asl ksl not the korean guy who's supposed to be responding, but viewer count comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt because while the golden era was all on cable television, asl/ksl is much more easily accessible through iptv/online streaming platforms so this skews/inflates numbers a lot. but do you have any idea what the tv ratings were? even if it's not an apples to apples comparison i'm still curious what they were.
The advertising companies look into the TV audience in a completely different manner than what they see in the Internet broadcasts viewer count. The way viewers got engaged is vastly different.
TV is mainstream. Twitch/afreeca are underground.
The big companies are tempted to invest in TV ads hundreds of times more than in internet broadcasts. Not comparable at all.
On the internet, you have control of what you see - if you don't like something you just close the tab and move to the next thing. On the TV you don't have control. Sure you can switch the channel, but the number of channels is finite - the chance of getting back to the show and continue watching it after the ads (for example) is incomparable.
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