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So, the other day I played a lengthy garden game where the enemy Johanna took Regen Master, the 20% extra shield, and Storm Shield. They were level 26 by the end (we won, incidentally) and I worked out that with her shields active she would have over 10,000 hit points.
Then I was playing Nazeebo in vs AI and trying to see how many stack of death ritual I could get to see how much hp I could get on him - I managed to get him to around 5000 by level 22, which I thought was pretty good. It made me think that theoretically he could have infinite health if he kept farming stacks.
So I was wondering, what's the highest hp you've ever seen in one game? A level 30 Azmodan with storm shield? A full souls Diablo with pre-nerf Rehgar shield? A Nazeebo in a 1 hour 40 game with 9000 stacks of death ritual?
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On June 07 2016 16:45 Larkin wrote:
Omg, don't tell them the truth about Imbazibo! They will end up nerfing him if too many people realize how imba he actually is. Did you ever get to level 30 in game? I may also have but I don't remember. Don't have a lot of "long" games nowadays.
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On June 07 2016 16:45 Larkin wrote: A Nazeebo in a 1 hour 40 game with 9000 stacks of death ritual? None of my games would last that long. By the time the 40th minute has passed, I would have already been fed up enough with the game to just quit out. ^_^
I had an interesting Chromie-centric draft / team comp we cobbled together in Team League. Not sure what the lessons / takeaways are, but an interesting datapoint I thought was worth sharing.
Caveat: Level of play wasn't the highest (was playing with a bunch of friends who are kind of new to the game). But I think our team comp just beats theirs.
Draft Map: Towers of Doom Second Pick.
Their ban: KT Our ban: Falstad
They pick: Li-Ming We pick: Thrall, Xul They pick: LiLi, Johanna
Our ban: Valla Their ban: Lt. Morales.
We pick: Diablo, Malph They pick: Slyvanas, Raynor We pick: Chromie
Draft thought process / Wall of text: (feedback on this is appreciated, I actually haven't drafted that much): Our Thrall/Xul picks were kinda locked in from the beginning (comfort picks for players with limited champ pools). I've realized I don't care about playing vs li-ming, so didn't bother banning her. After the LiLi/Joha picks was when I starting thinking about forcing a Chromie comp. Assumed they still needed a strong solo laner, and an extra dps. Decided to ban Valla over Sonya, since I kinda just wanted to draft more peel anyway to protect Chromie and b/c Sonya doesn't really do much with LiLi. Here, I knew we wanted to have some disenage-y, defensive picks. We picked Diablo as a kind of defensive tank, and malph support (kind of wanted uther, but our player didn't really play uther. In hindsight though, I think malph worked out). Rounded out with Chromie at the end.
Lane setup:
We ran Xul top, Thrall bot. Chromie/Diablo/Malph mid.
Most of the game, we actually ran a 4-1 split. Xul stayed top for a super long time.
Things I realized afterwards about what made this comp so good - Anybody roaming from mid to the sidelanes is strong (strong gank set up from xul/thrall/diablo, and strong followup from chromie/malph/diablo). - Having two strong solo laners let mid lane be aggressive and safe - Mid itself is formidable. Malph / Diablo CC combos well, Chromie can follow up on both. - Sidelane pressure + chromie poke to defend shrines gave us options when the shrines came up (either cap if we have a man advantage, or stall if we don't and let one of Xul/Thrall just continue to push). - If they split too hard, our pick potential was super high - Zero Pressure on Chromie. We had strong enough disengage and they had weak enough engage that they couldn't really stop me from shooting them, even if we were undermanned (4v5, 3v5). - We would also out-sustain them in seiges (malph vs lili). - Either of Chromie's ults are good vs the enemy team.
This honestly worked out like a split push + poke/seige comp that the enemy team didn't have an answer to.
Questions (because I'm too tired to answer these myself) - Was I just playing with scrubs, or am I right in thinking that our team comp just beats theirs? - If I'm right, where in the draft did the enemy team mess up? - What are the takeaways in terms of "when is Chromie a good pick?" - How map dependent was this comp?
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On June 07 2016 16:45 Larkin wrote: So, the other day I played a lengthy garden game where the enemy Johanna took Regen Master, the 20% extra shield, and Storm Shield. They were level 26 by the end (we won, incidentally) and I worked out that with her shields active she would have over 10,000 hit points.
Then I was playing Nazeebo in vs AI and trying to see how many stack of death ritual I could get to see how much hp I could get on him - I managed to get him to around 5000 by level 22, which I thought was pretty good. It made me think that theoretically he could have infinite health if he kept farming stacks.
So I was wondering, what's the highest hp you've ever seen in one game? A level 30 Azmodan with storm shield? A full souls Diablo with pre-nerf Rehgar shield? A Nazeebo in a 1 hour 40 game with 9000 stacks of death ritual? Chogall with Rehgar shield talented at 13
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Thetan > I'd say you kinda won the draft anyway. 3 man frontline with Xul vs Johanna is very greedy from your opponents. Chromie seems good as long as you can protect her or at least prevent people from getting to where they think she is (no Illidan, no Tracer, no Fals, no Nova, no Zera on the other team). Don't think Chromie is map dependent at all.
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Thetan: I'm not good at drafting myself but i feel the enemy got an OK draft but played pretty horrible. Raynor can take on Thrall on Botlane ezpz, Sylvanas can take on Xul, mid seems an even poke fight. Your teams gank potential is stronger, but their siege seems a lot stronger. Guessing this could have gone either way, depending on skill. Maybe if you are the most experienced / skilled player on the field, you may have well won that for your team
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Kind of disappointed that there are no balance changes at all with the new patch. New ranked is of course a big deal, but not going to get much PTR participation with just Medivh for people to test, and only 2 people out of 10 who can do that at a time.
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On June 07 2016 16:45 Larkin wrote: So, the other day I played a lengthy garden game where the enemy Johanna took Regen Master, the 20% extra shield, and Storm Shield. They were level 26 by the end (we won, incidentally) and I worked out that with her shields active she would have over 10,000 hit points.
Then I was playing Nazeebo in vs AI and trying to see how many stack of death ritual I could get to see how much hp I could get on him - I managed to get him to around 5000 by level 22, which I thought was pretty good. It made me think that theoretically he could have infinite health if he kept farming stacks.
So I was wondering, what's the highest hp you've ever seen in one game? A level 30 Azmodan with storm shield? A full souls Diablo with pre-nerf Rehgar shield? A Nazeebo in a 1 hour 40 game with 9000 stacks of death ritual?
There was a game I caught of Chu's where he was Nazeebo, he had around 400 stacks of Death Ritual on Tomb I think it was, the levels were in the early twenties.
He had over 6.5k health which is probably the most for that character I've seen personally. Highest HP in general I'd guess would go to some variation of Cho'gall+shield.
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I'm scared of unranked draft. Why would anyone play unranked draft ? - because they're a group of 3-4 friends - because they're people scared of losing ranks, there's a lot of these guys - people who want to train with some heroes
I mean, if I go do unranked draft, it's to test my heroes in "playable" teams, not 5 assassins vs 5 assassins like it's the case right now in QM.
BUT I guess everyone will just do that ? "Guys I'll play Illidan no matter what.", "Guys I've only queued to train as Zeratul" ... Seems like a scary place.
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PTR very lackluster. Medivh, who you can only get with real money for PRT, and ladder changes which make little sense to test on PTR. Besides a few overdue bug fixes (cho'gall) this patch is extremely lackluster. There are so many things that need balancing still and nothing is done.. They really need to grab every patch oppurtunity to fix some unused heroes imo, why aren't we seeing a butcher or gazlowe fix? Why isn't illidan nerfed? His overall hotslogs stats are weak perhaps but look at master only or follow any pro game and it's super obvious he is quite broken. They can't be handling a 100% must ban like this... Fix it already.
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Has anyone seen Medivh Chromie or played that combination on the PTR?
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Interesting that the new ladder system will have 7 bands with 5 subdivisions in each. The current system is ostensibly 50 ranks, but you can't lose points until you hit 40: so it's really 40 ranks. In the new system, there are 7x5 = 35 ranks, so it is basically the current rank system. Maybe the power of counting in 5s will comfort people?
Or is it 5x5 then master and grandmaster? This is still 27 "ranks", but I guess an improvement.
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On June 08 2016 01:19 MotherFox wrote: Interesting that the new ladder system will have 7 bands with 5 subdivisions in each. The current system is ostensibly 50 ranks, but you can't lose points until you hit 40: so it's really 40 ranks. In the new system, there are 7x5 = 35 ranks, so it is basically the current rank system. Maybe the power of counting in 5s will comfort people?
Or is it 5x5 then master and grandmaster? This is still 27 "ranks", but I guess an improvement.
I wouldn't care at all if it's 10 divisions or 50 ranks or whatever. As long as they are not equal size, ie being rank 1 means nothing. The only tangible improvement will be a more meaningful rank at the top end, which is quite useful for those players.
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On June 07 2016 21:39 Leolio wrote: I'm scared of unranked draft. Why would anyone play unranked draft ? - because they're a group of 3-4 friends - because they're people scared of losing ranks, there's a lot of these guys - people who want to train with some heroes
I mean, if I go do unranked draft, it's to test my heroes in "playable" teams, not 5 assassins vs 5 assassins like it's the case right now in QM.
BUT I guess everyone will just do that ? "Guys I'll play Illidan no matter what.", "Guys I've only queued to train as Zeratul" ... Seems like a scary place.
Yeah, "I'm locking in as Murky/Gazlowe and no one can stop me".
Not that this doesn't happen in HL rank 1, but still.
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Well that's the same with QM but people lock in their gazlowe without you seeing. At least in unranked draft you have a better chance at a half decent comp and can gauge the situation in draft and prepare yourself,I'm sure some people will be like that but take it with a pinch of salt, it's unranked!
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I've been staring at Medivh's talent tree for a while, but am not drawing any conclusions on what is most powerful. Has anyone else been thinking about potential builds for him? Seems like he'll be weak in HL but potentially powerful in coordinated games.
EDIT: The best I can come up with is that at level 7 arcane charge vs master's talent seems like arcane charge is obviously much better. The ability has a base of 399 damage according to heroes nexus, so 25% bonus damage on your next hit after hitting an enemy starts at better than the bonus 100 all the time, and actually scales with level. Plus you don't need to wait for a quest or play silly so you don't die.
but then the idea of having raven familiar and having a team of 5 pop out of a portal and all autoattack the same target is appealing...all that aside, the arcane barrier explosion one is probably best.
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8716 Posts
On June 09 2016 01:46 MotherFox wrote: I've been staring at Medivh's talent tree for a while, but am not drawing any conclusions on what is most powerful. Has anyone else been thinking about potential builds for him? Seems like he'll be weak in HL but potentially powerful in coordinated games.
EDIT: The best I can come up with is that at level 7 arcane charge vs master's talent seems like arcane charge is obviously much better. The ability has a base of 399 damage according to heroes nexus, so 25% bonus damage on your next hit after hitting an enemy starts at better than the bonus 100 all the time, and actually scales with level. Plus you don't need to wait for a quest or play silly so you don't die.
but then the idea of having raven familiar and having a team of 5 pop out of a portal and all autoattack the same target is appealing...all that aside, the arcane barrier explosion one is probably best. 399 is not much. It's 190 at level 1. Definitely a substantial nuke but nothing crazy. Arcane Explosion does almost the exact same damage as a normal Arcane Rift so you'll get more sustained damage and more burst damage with Arcane Explosion, though I'm guessing that'll be reliable only against melee enemies.
For HL, I'm thinking he'll be a strong pick against melee-heavy comps and diving comps. He'll have good sustained damage if he can be a mid liner in team fights where both teams maintain their position. And he'll be a great protector if the enemy team tries to dive: Force of Will on their target when they first come in, then Poly Bomb them, then Force of Will their target again, then portal away if necessary.
I don't think he'll be as good with heroes who are divers themselves. He'll get more work done defending against divers and he can enable anyone to dive by using portal offensively once it's safe to do so. I have my doubts about building team comps (and building his talents) around using portal offensively immediately. I think that'll mostly end up not working at all. Portal will work best as an escape, or when escape turns out to not be necessary, as a tool for chasing.
The build I'll probably try first: 4 Mage Armor, 7 Arcane Explosion, 10 Poly Bomb, 13 Quickening, 20 Glyph of Poly Bomb. 1 and 16 I'll probably decide more based on map and team comp. For level 1 I'll have to get a feel for his mana issues and how useful Portal Mastery will be.
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I played with him a few times on the PTR server after posting last night. Had difficulty really making a difference in games, probably because I was first-drafting him just to try him out.
As expected, force of will is by far the easiest of his abilities to use effectively. Though by the end of the second game I was beginning to do some fancy footwork using portal and arcane rifts. It appears very difficult to gank medivh. Combining portals with force of will and his raven form means medivh can escape on a dime unless he is stunlocked to death.
the level 1 talent that lets you select two locations for the portal is important, I think. You can select the first point, and allies can see that you've selected it---but you can wait for as long as you want before selecting the second point and starting the portal. That way allies can be prepared for where the escape point is going to be from, know you are thinking of using it, etc, etc.
It turns out I(and you) were right about force of will's damage talent being very useful at 7. It's hard to get allies to use the portals unless you are partied with them, so I'm still unsure about the block talent, and the damage one is definitely out. The one awkward thing about force of will damage talent is you can't really use it against things like immortals if you are racing damage down, but I guess it's not really for that anyway.
Didn't get a chance to use lay line. Poly bomb didn't have good opportunities, since we didn't face off against heavy melee comps and splits were relatively easy. If you only end up poly'ing two people, poly bomb ends up being slightly worse than brightwing's rewind polymorph. Seems like you really need magical moments for it to work out well. (or allies helping you set it up)
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Overall do you think he'll fit into the double support, or supportish+support style meta? Rehgar+Medivh say instead of Tass Rehgar kind of composition?
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At this point I wouldn't draft him ever. He didn't feel impactful enough without depending on teammate coordination. Of course, I don't know how higher ranks or pro games work out. Would be really fun to see some pro play with him.
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