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United States7483 Posts
- Anyone is allowed to answer. Try to backup your statements with pro game examples whenever possible. However, if you assert something wildly wrong, especially without enough support, you will be warned/banned. If you are unsure of the validity of an idea, just ask a question instead.
- In general this thread is here to help bridge the gap between proven pro level strategies/ideas and the average player, not for you to give your opinion (unless it has very sufficient grounding from pro game evidence).
- Don't ask the same questions that are in the OP.
- A full list of Protoss changes can be found here
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Q: What tech path should I choose? + Show Spoiler +All three (twilight, robo, stargate) tech paths seem to be doing decently well in the early game.
Twilight council: This gives you access to charge, blink, and resonating glaves. The most common upgrade to get is blink, as this can give you much more flexibility in your defense against drops, and can give you a powerful attack technique. Charge is for much later in the game when you have a larger army, as we see a lot of Protoss players replacing zealots in their armies with adepts. The last upgrade, resonating glaives, increases the attack speed of adepts and can be crucial in later game engagements.
Stargate: Not seen too often, the stargate provides early oracles for damage, and phoenix for defense. Some builds revolve around getting a big phoenix count early on, and dropping a third base behind this while you prevent drops and attacks with the phoenix. The oracles new ability, stasis ward, can prove to be useful in trapping clumps of army and forcing the Terran to separate their main army from their trapped units.
Robotics Facility: Probably the most common opening, this gives you access to warp prisms. Warp prisms have the ability to pick up units at a large distance away, and combining this with an adept warp prism can prove to be a powerful early game harassement technique. After building a robotics bay you’ll have access to disruptors which we see in almost every PvT army composition.
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What's the ideal army composition I should be shooting for? + Show Spoiler +Playing into the mid game, you'll want a stalker/disruptor combo of units. Pay very close attention to your army however, as you can lose the majority of it instantly to disruptor shots if you are not looking. A tempest transition still seems to be very effective in the late game.
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Hooray! There's been a decent amount of discussion as to whether or not protoss gets a few colossus before getting distruptors because they deal consistent damage, and force the terran to make vikings. Does anyone know if this is working out for them? I havent enough PvT (~half are pvz atm) to really find out.
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Sweet! So glad to see the LotV version of this thread
My current burning LotV question: I've been running into a few Terrans who do a Liberator push at like 4:00 after I go Nexus first. What is an effective strategy for handling that? It's very hard to scout the lack of a natural on maps with a pocket expo, since T can wall off, and by the time an Observer gets over after a fast expansion I don't have a heck of a lot of time to react.
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United States7483 Posts
We'll be updating the OP soon, but opted to post the thread now and start generating discussion.
iMrising, it's something a lot of players are experimenting with, it's too early really to come to any conclusions. My suspicions are that it's a little on the weak side given how expensive the colossus is, but we need more time to really tell. I think it's more likely that terran players just aren't making vikings as early and are building liberators instead, so the colossus is less likely to just get outright run over compared to HOTS, despite its lower damage output.
AmericanUmlaut, a rather quick blink seems to be the best way to deal with most forms of early liberator shenanigans, but other than that all you can really do is stall and try to flank it. Warp prisms to move units to a flanking position can be useful: robo openings basically require an early warp prism to be functional. Fighting under a liberator is basically a fool's errand.
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I'm a brand new to SC2 and play Protoss (only played a week a half) so this thread is gunna be gold. Thanks a lot.
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The meta is swifting so fast , that its really hard to put down the actual solid standard play at the moment in my opinion.
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hello there while i'm pretty ok vs zergs and protoss, i have a big trouble vs terrans. I have absolutly no idea on what to do from early to late game. I tried opening stargate, but oracle for harass seems pretty useless right now.. I tried a 3 gate pressure with adepts, but they got marauders and the damage I do is low In the mid game, i tried blink distruptors but it fails vs almost everything Also the fast liberator strategy is a big pain..with so little efforts they can do huge damage and get their macro up with little apms.
Any kind of suggestion is welcomed
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What does it mean when I 16 scout Zerg, they have a spawning pool and a single hatchery being built? What is the standard time for a Zerg to make their third base if they are playing macro?
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United States7483 Posts
On December 05 2015 23:17 wandroid wrote: What does it mean when I 16 scout Zerg, they have a spawning pool and a single hatchery being built? What is the standard time for a Zerg to make their third base if they are playing macro?
Check their gas timings. If they don't have any gas, start looking for a third base.
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I haven't played too much since WoL so im still not terribly used to the mothership core in general. And mostly it feels like im randomly flying it around the map without being all that efficient with it while harassing or defending. Any tips and tricks for mothership core usage?
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On December 06 2015 08:03 KingDime wrote: I haven't played too much since WoL so im still not terribly used to the mothership core in general. And mostly it feels like im randomly flying it around the map without being all that efficient with it while harassing or defending. Any tips and tricks for mothership core usage?
If you do an aggressive poke early on, its wise to take your momcore along to recall back to nexus should things go wrong. You can leave it by the ramp near your pylons to fire overcharges as needed or by your mineral lines. IMO the core is better to offend with early on vs Z and as a general defensive instrument vs T.
Is it better to put more pylons to power the walling structures to overcharge in a concave or can this go bad with ravagers' bile?
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Hi guys just started playing starcraft again i wonder what are the go to build orders for the current match-ups for toss as well as the late game composition. Im trying to tighten up my macro game.
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On December 06 2015 09:46 BiggerBadderWolf wrote: Hi guys just started playing starcraft again i wonder what are the go to build orders for the current match-ups for toss as well as the late game composition. Im trying to tighten up my macro game.
Well, the game is brand new, so we havent YET figured out all the stuff. You may want to start by checking out the Dreamhack replay pack and testing units against each other on the unit tester. I alternate between 2 gate openings, gate-core-nexus and nexus first, depending on map and matchup. Your lategame composition will largely depend on what you are up against, but vs T and P you will want a bunch of adepts early game if you can secure an early expo, then transition into robo for disruptors or templars with storm. What you can also do is practice mechanics on unranked games or on a map all by yourself and then go wild on ladder with builds. I find this to be the funniest method.
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How do I counter archons/HT when going phoenix? I open gateway expand → 2nd gas → stargate → robo → natural gases. At what time do I add void ray/carrier?
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United States7483 Posts
On December 06 2015 13:54 wandroid wrote: How do I counter archons/HT when going phoenix? I open gateway expand → 2nd gas → stargate → robo → natural gases. At what time do I add void ray/carrier?
Twilight council tech is the natural counter to phoenix play. Archons/HT deal with phoenix without much trouble, and there's not too much you can do about it if your opponent is paying attention. You want to scout with your phoenix as soon as possible, probably with your first one or with a sentry using hallucinate. If you see Twilight tech, you don't want to make a bunch of phoenix. At that point, I'd switch to an oracle to pin them defensively back while I switch tech, or just switch straight into robo tech and try to harass with only a couple phoenix.
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Is there a clear advantage towards going disruptor vs terran bio and lurker+roach? Or does it makes more sense to go towards storm with zealot support?
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Canada13372 Posts
On December 06 2015 14:59 halomonian wrote: Is there a clear advantage towards going disruptor vs terran bio and lurker+roach? Or does it makes more sense to go towards storm with zealot support?
Lurkers will destroy the zealots before they really get a chance to close on them, their damage is too high to enter into a direct engagement against. This is why people use disruptors to try and kill them/to retain some control of the area they are pushing into. The disruptor will be able to either force them to unborrow, if they see it fast enough, or get a guaranteed kill on at least one lurker (2 balls do enough damage to oneshot the lurker). If they go lurker roach, then off creep the disruptor will be able to chase whatever they throw at you and usually net a few kills.
Against terran, I personally feel that archon zealot (with storm) is as strong as its always been. Very strong if they don't have widow mines, very weak if they do. Due to the sheer number of zealots you will have with a storm or archon timing, small numbers of liberators mean very little to you. Once they get a lot however, the zealots will have a hard time overrunning the bio without losing a lot of strength to high liberator counts.
Dealing with widow mines with disruptors is trivial. The disruptor shot will one shot the mines, making it easy to push into the terran once you thin out the mine count. So mixing them in will always be good against a terran who makes mines as a part of his main composition. The liberators however pose an interesting problem. For them, I have been experimenting with success making some void rays to try and focus them down and using disruptors to zone out marines who think they can come close enough to attack the voids. Storm could serve a similar purpose here, so if theydont get mines but they do get liberators, with a sufficiently high storm count and gas income you can incorporate some voidrays. Just 3 or 4 really, press charge shift right click the defender mode liberators and storm the bio if it approaches. Once the libs are dead, or low in number, your zealot archon force should be able to walk all over their bio or at least deny some bases to retain map control and mining lead
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Hey y'all. Haven't played much since WoL and starting to get back into it. What happened to colossus? I'm barely seeing them anymore in any match up and it seems people prefer disruptors over colossus. I'm digging the disruptors but still curious why colossus fell out of favor.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 07 2015 08:01 Dirichlet wrote: Hey y'all. Haven't played much since WoL and starting to get back into it. What happened to colossus? I'm barely seeing them anymore in any match up and it seems people prefer disruptors over colossus. I'm digging the disruptors but still curious why colossus fell out of favor.
They were nerfed, their damage output was lowered.
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What is the ideal composition against zerg at each stage of the game? I usually start out with stalker / adept but by the time I hit they have overwhelming roach / ravager so I add in immortals and use oracles for harass and by the time I push they have mass hydra in there. Should I immediately add in disruptors and just forget attempting to harass my opponent?
When I get atleast 2 disruptors a ball of mutas fly in, and by the time I transition into pheonix or a mass amoutn of blink stalkers to deal with it, I get hit by ultralisks. It feels like no matter what I do the zerg have the ability to produce an immediate hard counter and always have the superior numbers. Even in my best case scenario games they suicide my 3rd and deny my 4th from losing ground and win.
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