|
Hey guys! Started a new analysis Series called Stratwatch (Playlist Link), focusing on dissecting professional hero compositions so everyone can understand them, and use them in their own play.
Stratwatch 1: Protect the President
Summary: Cloud 9 unveils the first competitive variation of a Bastion based composition. Using Bastion on the pay load with 2 Reinhardts, and Mercy to immediately assist him - add 2 Widowmakers and this line-up can dominate any escort or hybrid map-type. Because Bastion has so much room with 2 Barriers protecting him and damage amp, coupled with the 2 Widowmakers and 2 Reinhardts being a threat in their own right; this comp has to be dealt with cleanly and swiftly.
Stratwatch 2: Goggles and Glasses
Summary: Double McCree, Double Lucio, Double Reinhardt, used by EnvyUs on KoTH map type versus Luminosity in Overkill.GG for 3rd place. This strategy uses aggression to seize tempo and cap the point, push out and establish a soft contain to get extra objective time. Through sticking together as 6 heroes and having healing and speed auras this lineup can be terrifying to play against. (McCree's can be subbed for tracers, and Reinhardts for Winstons).
Stratwatch 3: Hollywood Defense
Summary: This episode we will finally cover a Defensive strategy by Reunited against Cloud9 in the Overkill.GG Finals. Using spam, position and information manipulation Reunited's strong individual play lets them take the map, and tie the series.
Stratwatch 4: Importance of Individual plays in Strategies
Summary: This episode will be covering the elephant in the room, can individuals shape the outcome of the game? In this match between Luminosity and EnvyUs, Seagull and Enigma prove how much value there is in strong individual plays. Without their abilities in this game, Luminosity would have lost.
Stratwatch 5: C9's Gibraltar Defense
Summary: This Episode is another break down of defense. Cloud 9 on Gibraltar is terrifying, the best at it in the game at the moment. How do they do it? This video will break-down the main two parts of the defense, and how its almost impossible to break-through.
Stratwatch 6: Shutting out the Offense [GFE's Hold against TL at Agents Rising]
Summary: This Stratwatch will cover Gale Force Esports defensive hold against Team Liquid in the Agents Rising LAN run by EsportsArena. How does Gale Force Esports hold Team liquid where other teams couldn't? What compositions do they use to do it? And what concepts can we learn from them for our own play? This episode aims to answer those very questions.
Stratwatch 7 - King of the Hill in 1 Hero Limit
Summary: Nubris vs Teamliquid on Nepal was a very clean example of the current KotH standard composition in 1HL. As well this game displayed the key core concepts to winning King of the Hill with this composition, or one that uses Zarya. I hope this episode helps navigate these concepts with multiple examples, instancing how situational awareness and understanding the conditions of those situations improves your play on KotH maps.
Stratwatch 8 - How to improve Individually: Part One
Summary: This episode will be going back to the basics and look at the core mechanics of First Person Shooters that you will need to work on mastering to improve your game. As well this episode will look at the more ethereal concepts like: Positioning and situational awareness; these concepts take time and studying to develop a large enough conditional understanding of the game.
Stratwatch 9 - Kings Row: Defending Point A and Streets Phase
Summary: We finally look at Kings Row. This episode highlights how to defend on Point A and streets phase of kings row. We look at the previous patches compositions as well as the new patches. Specifically we look for the differences that are present on Point A defense; and for streets phase we focus on how to regain tempo and defend with Pharah.
Stratwatch 10 - Gibraltar Offense: Breakdown of OGInvitational and Alienware Monthly
Summary: This episodes looks at 5 games from the OG Invitational and Alienware monthly cup to find the core comps tactics and strategies for attacking on Gibraltar. This episode covers all three points, and hopes to highlight how different the first point is for the last two.
Stratwatch 11 - How to Improve Individually (Part two: Positioning)
Summary: This episode will continue the series Improving Individually and look at the core mechanics of First Person Shooters that you will need to work on mastering to improve your game. This episode in the series will focus on positioning, what is it? What is good positioning versus bad? What does having good positioning do for you? And how do you improve your positioning? The series of How to improve Individually will continue alone with other episodes of Stratwatch, and I will be covering Tempo next.
Stratwatch 12 - First Episode covering Numbani
Summary: This episode is the first one to look at Numbani. The focus of this episode is on the current comps most commonly seen on Numbani, how to defend on Numbani, and how to break Point A. This episode is a bit more informal, and a lot of the ideas and concepts covered in this episode can be applied to other maps!.
Stratwatch 13 - How to Improve Individually (Part Three: Situational Awareness)
Summary: In part 3 of the self-improvement series we take a loot at the idea of situational awareness. What is it? What does good situational awareness provide to a player? and how can one improve their situational awareness? This episode aims to answer these questions and provide insight about game sense/situational awareness.
Stratwatch 14 - 2CP Analysis - Temple of Anubis
Summary: We finally take a look at 2CP maps (assault game type) in Stratwatch. These maps have been a contentious subject in the community due to the quick swings of tempo. But with the addition of the time-bank setup, teams have started to pick them more in competitive events. I hope this episode helps shed some light on the theories of the map, the compositions reunited to defend and attack, as well as why these maps can feel imbalanced.
Stratwatch 15 - Ana in the Current Meta: 3 Support Composition
Summary: In a recent match from the recording Evoks ran a pocket Ana strategy that I wanted to look at through the lens of the current meta. In this episode I hope to cover the idea of why the 2/2/2 meta is so galvanized, where Ana could fit in the current meta, and analyze a high skill competitive match that used Ana. I hope this episode helps shed some light on these topics as the format this time around was a bit more informal.
Stratwatch 16 - Mei on Kings Row: Analysis of Team Liquid and OhNo from the Atlantic Showdown
Summary: In the NA Regionals of the Atlantic Showdown there was plenty of different heroes picks seen. There was a revival of the Pharamercy combo, there was play of Junkrat and - most importantly for this episode - Mei was a seen in multiple games on Kings Row. In this episode I hope to breakdown what makes Mei a good pick on Kings Row point A, how to effectively use her, what it looks like in contrast to the standard defense, and how to deal with Mei.
Stratwatch 17 - Ultimate Management
Summary: In this Stratwatch I tried to tackle the concept of Ultimate Management. There are many layers to this, and the goal was to at least cover the following parts of it: What are the categories of Ultimates, what is good Ultimate Management, how does this effect the individual, how does this effect the team, and how is Ultimate Management different for the offense and defense (with the latter logic sometimes applying to King of the Hill). I hope this episode helps drive more discussion and analysis into Ultimate Management as I strong feel this is a core layer to strong Overwatch play!
Any thoughts or feedback are always appreciated!
Edit: Cleaned up links so it easier to find the episode you want!
|
Ah good old protect the president.
|
Figured it would be the most "standard comp" to cover for players going into Launch, but I also personally enjoy playing Widowmaker in a comp like this.
|
Episode 2 just got released if you are interested!
|
Amazing, keep making these. I liked your first episode, but I think it would be neat if you'd maybe give a few examples of counters to the strategies you describe. Just a thought. Might suck, but personally I kept thinking of how I'd counter the strat you presented. You do touch on this when you talk about specific parts of the lineup, but still..
|
Amazing, keep making these. I liked your first episode, but I think it would be neat if you'd maybe give a few examples of counters to the strategies you describe. Just a thought. Might suck, but personally I kept thinking of how I'd counter the strat you presented. You do touch on this when you talk about specific parts of the lineup, but still..
I have received a lot of requests to do more video content, so I might just consider starting the "counter" series too it here soon. Thank you for your feedback and support!! I hope you like the next episode!
|
Third episode is out! :D
This episode we will finally cover a Defensive strategy by Reunited against Cloud9 in the Overkill.GG Finals. Using spam, position and information manipulation Reunited's strong individual play lets them take the map, and tie the series.
|
Just watched all 3. Awesome work!
|
First and third videos were excellent. They definitely gave me a new perspective on the game.
|
Just watched all 3. Awesome work!
Thank you! Hope to improve even more when I can use the replay client, and as I learn better editing techniques/software.
First and third videos were excellent. They definitely gave me a new perspective on the game.
Glad to hear it! Part of the fun of doing this is to help people who don't have the time/desire to breakdown and watch pro games like I do. It's something I have a lot of fun doing. If I may ask what was your complaint about the second video? Really want to make this series the best it can be for launch and beyond :D
|
The second video felt more play by playish as opposed to real analysis.
|
The second video felt more play by playish as opposed to real analysis.
Noted. I definitely feel like the second was not best at all. So I will rewatch a few extra times to avoid similar complaints for future episodes Thank you for being frank.
|
Hey I have a small request for future content. I know you've been doing this a bit already, but I want to see more about map metas, counter-metas, and when running a counter-meta, how the pros pick their heroes before seeing what the enemy team is running. Main reason for me watching analysis videos is that when ranked comes out, I want to 6 stack with friends and run the absolute most cancerous strategies and get a 90% winrate off being OP pubstompy instead of having real skill.
|
On May 21 2016 06:08 Chairman Ray wrote: Hey I have a small request for future content. I know you've been doing this a bit already, but I want to see more about map metas, counter-metas, and when running a counter-meta, how the pros pick their heroes before seeing what the enemy team is running. Main reason for me watching analysis videos is that when ranked comes out, I want to 6 stack with friends and run the absolute most cancerous strategies and get a 90% winrate off being OP pubstompy instead of having real skill. Haha, I like your boldness in publicly announcing that you're an asshole. =p
|
Hey I have a small request for future content. I know you've been doing this a bit already, but I want to see more about map metas, counter-metas, and when running a counter-meta, how the pros pick their heroes before seeing what the enemy team is running. Main reason for me watching analysis videos is that when ranked comes out, I want to 6 stack with friends and run the absolute most cancerous strategies and get a 90% winrate off being OP pubstompy instead of having real skill.
I will definitely think on this point. While I do not want to focus on just "cheese" or cheeky strategies, I think it would be entertaining to do a side series that does focus on cheese - I feel like I would enjoy doing it at least.
Going into launch I am going to keep working primarily on the formula, actual speaking/recording. and my editing. But thank you for the feedback, it helps churn up the ideas :D
Haha, I like your boldness in publicly announcing that you're an asshole. =p
When you gotta 2 proxy rax reaper, you gotta do it
|
Just run mass Winstons against newb teams. They won't know how to handle a bunch of angry monkeys charging through their lines.
|
Just run mass Winstons against newb teams. They won't know how to handle a bunch of angry monkeys charging through their lines.
Link
Just do that
|
Just released Episode 4 if you are interested! I updated the title with the summary and link. For the lazy
|
Thanks man, really good series.
|
Getting ready for Overwatch as a noob myself I was looking for a series like this, keep at it I've liked what u have here u got yourself a new subscriber
|
Thanks man, really good series.
Getting ready for Overwatch as a noob myself I was looking for a series like this, keep at it I've liked what u have here u got yourself a new subscriber
Thank you so much guys! I hope to keep them rolling, and keep improving the series. Hopefully for episode 5 I can have my hands on a replay client
|
Fantastic videos, haven't been following the OW proscene much but with insights like these I'm now very intrigued. Looking forward to more content, keep it up!
|
I was watching theses and all I could think of is that it is Day9 worthy stuff. I wish there was a replay system in place so you could pause and move the camera around/out to show positioning, pathing, etc...
|
Thank you. I really don't think I deserve that kind of comparison, but I can't lie that Day9 heavily influenced the way I see video games. His Dailies were what got me into wanting to play sc2 competitively back in WoL.
I agree I can't wait till have a demo system, every new episode I have done since 2 I have wanted to have one more and more.
Apologize that episode 5 is not out yet, it should be out tonight. I had a bit of casting obligations this weekend, but you guys should be seeing a new episode soon! Again sorry for the delay, and thank you for your support
|
Episode 5 is finally out. I apologize for the time between episodes, I was casting 2 overwatch tournaments this week. I hope to balance my schedule and get you guys at least 2 episodes a week!
|
You're doing a really great job there, but could you please stick to using the heroes names instead of players nicknames? It's really confusing to me, because I dont know any of those guys. Everytime you call them by nicknames I have to search on the top bar who you really mean by this.
|
You're doing a really great job there, but could you please stick to using the heroes names instead of players nicknames? It's really confusing to me, because I dont know any of those guys. Everytime you call them by nicknames I have to search on the top bar who you really mean by this.
I am really sorry about that. Many people have complained about that and I really want to work on that for the next episode. its a habit from casting, while in casting its perfectly fine I get where it could be extremely annoying here. Thank you for being honest and frank about this, I hope to get it ironed out by the next episode or two :D
And double thank you for enjoying the content. I am glad my rambling is useful to you! I really did enjoy making this episode specifically.
|
On June 01 2016 01:25 RaptorZGaming wrote:Show nested quote +You're doing a really great job there, but could you please stick to using the heroes names instead of players nicknames? It's really confusing to me, because I dont know any of those guys. Everytime you call them by nicknames I have to search on the top bar who you really mean by this. I am really sorry about that. Many people have complained about that and I really want to work on that for the next episode. its a habit from casting, while in casting its perfectly fine I get where it could be extremely annoying here. Thank you for being honest and frank about this, I hope to get it ironed out by the next episode or two :D And double thank you for enjoying the content. I am glad my rambling is useful to you! I really did enjoy making this episode specifically.
Glad, I can help, I also hope that Blizzard implements some kind of replay/demo system soonish so you can show the angles you want to not only from vods.
|
I also hope that Blizzard implements some kind of replay/demo system soonish so you can show the angles you want to not only from vods.
I couldn't agree more. It is getting to the point where I feel the need to say more because I have to explain it, rather than just show it. I hope they do add it time, and give the replay client so neat features like a mini-map/other information tools. But it's week 2 so can't complain all that much (however I really did want it on launch).
|
In ep 5 I get the first defendse but I don't really get the second, except for the fact that they make sure they are repositioned before each push. I feel it came down to individual outplays and poor play from the attackers more than anything else there. If you look at the soldier who is sitting on top of the aircraft then you can see that noone even checked if he is there when they push through below it. It seems to be an extremely dangerous angle there because he has so many players who could actually shoot him there for a pretty long time but they don't even get the tradekill off. I also wonder how the defense adapted with their positioning between the attacks, because we couldn't really see that in the video. I second that there needs to be a replay system for that. Overall I enjoyed all the videos and I subscribed so keep it up!
|
I don't really get the second, except for the fact that they make sure they are repositioned before each push. I feel it came down to individual outplays and poor play from the attackers more than anything else there. If you look at the soldier who is sitting on top of the aircraft then you can see that noone even checked if he is there when they push through below it.
Firstly, I want to bring up the point that individual play defines every strategy and game that is played at the top level. Even in games at low, medium, and high skill, there are more instances than not of a strategy working because an individual or a few, significantly outplay or out-preform their opponents at that time. But that is why I covered this topic in stratwatch 4. I want to make it clear through-out this series and my analysis that individual play and strategy are an ebb and flow, without one the other doesn't matter. But the emphasis here in the series as a whole is the yin and yang between them.
As for ReUnited never checking for the soldier: They knew. They knew very well what they were walking into, but between time constraints and the power of the setup that c9 uses, they chose to power through with a Roadhog and use his pick mechanic (hook+LMB+melee) to hope for a power play in hero numbers. Ultimately I think, and the game as a loss is some qualatitative proof, that it was the wrong method to crack this setup.
It seems to be an extremely dangerous angle there because he has so many players who could actually shoot him there for a pretty long time but they don't even get the tradekill off.
While yes all 4 doors can see soldier; soldier can see all 4 doors. It is the purpose of having him play that hero in that spot. He can quickly move around the top of the shuttle to change what doors can and can't see him. If there is a direct threat to Soldier it has to move through the doors (if its widow ill cover below), which means the McCree cross fire + soldier concentrating the target at the same time will quickly dispense of them. If they threat some how survives that, or is still a threat after this, winston is behind soldier ready to drop a bubble and give soldier an additional 600 HP. Also note that with the Mercy amping the soldier, and his biotic field, no hero can trade and poke with a soldier.
You might think about Widowmaker, and to be honest I think this is part of the way to deal with it. However I imagine in a world where a Widow is the counter, the widows primary goal is first to pick Mercy then Soldier. However, its worth noting that again if this is the threat soldier can stand on the shuttle so that the door Widow is peaking through is LOS blocked because of the shuttle. Again also add that Winston can bubble soldier + mercy while soldier goes to town.
I also wonder how the defense adapted with their positioning between the attacks, because we couldn't really see that in the video.
If this is all in reference to the first portion of the defense, they do minor adaptions with the 2 winstons before each push based on the information gathered by Infra-Sight, or by what they don't see. The changes are really when the attack happens, and in that game I think they flex out 2 of 3 times very similarly. However I really wanted to stress the idea that spreading out with this sort of mobile mid-range / long range line-up creates great crossfires. c9 doesn't really need to change how they specifically respond because they weren't really threatened (until surefour goes down after adam, and 2easy goes off with his widow).
If this is in reference to the second point, they don't change their setup at all really; and that was the major difference that I didn't highlight well I guess. They have a rigid way to execute that portion that exploits the inability for the defense to pick at soldier on the shuttle.
Thank you so much for your discussion point and thoughts! I really enjoy engaging in theory crafting, and its part of the reason why I have started the series. Thank you for taking the time to engage here, and also for the sub I hope I can continue to make quality stratwatches for you guys!
Also forgive grammar, or if something doesn't make sense. Did a basic edit run through, but low on sleep from casting and want to get you guys the next stratwatch ASAP (Ideally monday early day is the plan now).
quick edit: Want to add, I don't want my logic to make it sound like this defense is unbeatable - all strats are beatable through counterstrating or good play. I personally think knowing how to beat a strat starts with knowing it in and out, so I hope this discussion helps enlighten people about the strategy further! :D
|
Thank you for the response. Another thing I wonder, it might be very basic, is which the priority picks are at the moment and why. And also why teams regularly have 2 heroes of the same type, is it because it gives their strategy more focus or is it because there are only so few viable picks atm?
|
Sweet, learning the game now =)
|
Thank you for the response. Another thing I wonder, it might be very basic, is which the priority picks are at the moment and why. And also why teams regularly have 2 heroes of the same type, is it because it gives their strategy more focus or is it because there are only so few viable picks atm?
This is a very contentious subject in the community right now. But it basically boils down to the name of the game is agression in overwatch at the moment. 2x winston brings more pressure and tempo than any other tank combo, and 2x lucio for koth is very strong (small internal synergies are that, auras dont stack but you have one on each being able to amp which aura needs it on need. Also high skill lucio duos coordinate whos on what aura based on ult charge, the healing lucio will always get it faster so its important to swap here and there on auras). And of course McCree is just amazing right now, his whole toolkit just gives good players a lot to work with (and it a lot of the communities eyes too much to work with). I can expand on this more if you want, but that is the tl;dr of it.
Note most of the community in the competitive scene wants 1 hero limits. We will see where it goes. In a month or two after balance changes, this topic will probably be a much different beast.
Sweet, learning the game now =)
Glad I can help. Knowing this helps both competitive players and new players a like makes the creating of these videos that much more rewarding. I really do want to help mitigate the negativity on ladder/quick match by enlightening people on how to synergize hero picks, and hopefully clearing explaining the idea that individual play and teamwork are a balance in this game. You can't win without one, but each game one side of the equation can matter more.
I will be releasing Stratwatch 6 tomorrow (Monday 6/6) ideally around 11AM PST. Hopefully it will continue to prove useful!
|
|
|
Thx for the upload. Zarya seems to be a really good and flexible tank who can hold objectives very well paired with another tank. Preferably with Winston (King of the Hill) and with Reinhardt (Payload). Zarya and Reinhardt can kill just about any number of heroes with blackhole into shatter. She can give Winston just enough survivability to leap in and out of fights, making him an even stronger skirmisher.
In general I don't think it is too smart to focus too much on ultimate based wombo combos with blackhole though. I think it is better to have some sort of consistent AoE damage (Junkrat, Phara, Winston, Reinhardt) so you can take any opportunity to use blackhole on multiple targets as long as one of your AoE heroes is alive.
I'am not a fan of Mercy in KotH though. I don't see her utility shining in that mode as much.
|
On June 13 2016 02:43 clickrush wrote: Thx for the upload. Zarya seems to be a really good and flexible tank who can hold objectives very well paired with another tank. Preferably with Winston (King of the Hill) and with Reinhardt (Payload). Zarya and Reinhardt can kill just about any number of heroes with blackhole into shatter. She can give Winston just enough survivability to leap in and out of fights, making him an even stronger skirmisher.
In general I don't think it is too smart to focus too much on ultimate based wombo combos with blackhole though. I think it is better to have some sort of consistent AoE damage (Junkrat, Phara, Winston, Reinhardt) so you can take any opportunity to use blackhole on multiple targets as long as one of your AoE heroes is alive.
I'am not a fan of Mercy in KotH though. I don't see her utility shining in that mode as much.
Thank you so much for the thoughts and discussion! On your first point, this is definitely a strong CC combo, but on KotH and just in general you want to be careful about using 2 CC abilities/ultimates together. If you land a large Graviton Surge, and have 1 damage ultimate it can wipe the entire team. Then next fight you can combo Earthshatter with your other damage ultimate. Where as if you use 2 CC ult's in conjunction you will only have damage ultimates in the next fight. However there always will be at least one if not many where comboing ES and GS together are beneficial. Just want to give you the other side of coin on this point.
On your second point, this is definitely true. If you can avoid using more than 1 ultimate (i.e. like you said just using GS and Junkrat spam) is ideal. However sometimes this is not the case, as its too high risk to rely on throughput spam/damage. But again you are right that if you can avoid using Damage ults to combo with GS or ES, and just wipe them out right you should - everytime no question. Just be ready to see what situations require one and don't is my point
Lastly this is a product of 1HL, which other support would you sub for mercy? Or would you only run 1 support, being probably lucio? Personally I think that Mercy is a double edged sword kind of hero. When heroed well and constantly hitting large well timed ults makes her very strong on KotH. But in the same breathe, if she is picked consistently, rezzes heroes in less than ideal situations, or etc, it is a major issue. Though I would argue that is intrinsic to the player not playing the hero well, rather than hero not being good.
Again thank you so much for your time and thoughts. I hope this adds to your thoughts and generates more discussion!
|
Let me expand on the mercy issue. I think She is very good on Payload maps because she can juggle sustain vs poke damage well and can win key skirmishes in a specific area. Also there she has more space to hide and providing really good ultimates. But on KotH she is more a liability i think. I don't even think you need 2 supports there, 1 hero who sustaines between engagements and against poke has to be enough. An additional hero who can create picks is in my opinion way stronger there.
In an extreme example: Think of a 2v2 where one of the team has a mercy and the others have 2 heroes who can kill stuff. I'am betting right now that the team with mercy will lose alot more. In 6v6 KotH you could instead of mercy pick a hero with high burst who can create picks for example roadhog/reaper or a hero who deals AoE to counter the mercy heal such as phara/junkrat. If you are *constantly* forced to fight in a tight and more easily assessable area then sustain is way less interesting. If it has to be a second support then I even think the low pickrate zenyatta would do better because his orb is way more potent on a target than mercys dps buff and he provides poke and sustained damage by himself, also his ult counters alot of things better than revive and he doesnt have to hide in cover to provide it. Especially since people are wombo comboing.
|
In an extreme example: Think of a 2v2 where one of the team has a mercy and the others have 2 heroes who can kill stuff. I'am betting right now that the team with mercy will lose alot more. In 6v6 KotH you could instead of mercy pick a hero with high burst who can create picks for example roadhog/reaper or a hero who deals AoE to counter the mercy heal such as phara/junkrat. If you are *constantly* forced to fight in a tight and more easily assessable area then sustain is way less interesting. If it has to be a second support then I even think the low pickrate zenyatta would do better because his orb is way more potent on a target than mercys dps buff and he provides poke and sustained damage by himself, also his ult counters alot of things better than revive and he doesnt have to hide in cover to provide it. Especially since people are wombo comboing.
Interesting way to look at. Specifically on the first point you talk about using damage instead of mercy, so in the current hero pool you would prefer running solo Lucio? (Or you mention Zenyatta)? I do like the line of logic you are bringing up, that maybe King of the Hill meta should look at a more aggressive style of play. I just think that the current hero pool makes it hard. I am curious what kind of composition would prefer if you removed Mercy. Something like Lucio + Zarya +Winston + Reaper + Tracer + McCree?
Also on your point at the end that Zenyatta helps deal with Wombo, do you think it is better than Mercy? Personally Transcendence does put out a lot of healing during a GS (not quite enough to stop barrage but it will slow it down), but I see Mercy as a better answer to wombo because you reset the fight post the combo by rezzing your team.
Thank you for the continued discussion. Hope this adds to it!
|
I'am thinking of Zen as a second support instead of mercy in koth not as a solo support. I feel like his ult provides much more reliable protection against combos because he is invulnerable and doesnt have to hide for it. Mercy needs to stay alive for the whole combo, which is way harder to pull off and more situational. Anything that can burst down targets quickly would be more preferable in my eyes instead of mercy. For example roadhog has good sustain and can instantly kill most targets very frequently which is much more impactful on koth than a bit more sustain.
|
On June 14 2016 02:43 clickrush wrote: I'am thinking of Zen as a second support instead of mercy in koth not as a solo support. I feel like his ult provides much more reliable protection against combos because he is invulnerable and doesnt have to hide for it. Mercy needs to stay alive for the whole combo, which is way harder to pull off and more situational. Anything that can burst down targets quickly would be more preferable in my eyes instead of mercy. For example roadhog has good sustain and can instantly kill most targets very frequently which is much more impactful on koth than a bit more sustain.
Apologize for the later response had a cast today. I agree with you on the theory level and although this discussion occurred before the patch, the patch helps your point. We will see when more competitive matches are played but Zenyatta might see a lot more play and get experimented with as Widow cannot 1 shot kill with a body shot anymore. Given your logic I think it will be very interesting to see where teams take the new patch. On a personal level I think we will still see Mercy Lucio on KotH but might see him on maps like Numbani where the offense comp tends to have a genji often. However we might just see what your talking about this weekend.
Again sorry for the later response and lack of ideas added to the discussion. Between casting and the new patch I haven't had the time to add to this. I am very excited to see how competitive players look at mercy vs zen in the new patch.
|
I can't be bothered to find the exact game but it was recent on Lijang Tower I believe where (I think Envyus) used Zen and competely countered a Zarya blackhole. The advantage is that he can still cast his ult if he gets caught by it. Also Roadhog seems to get more attention lately I think because people figured that the best you can do vs double sustain is to just burst one target down quickly. He also shines vs teams that don't have a particularly high damage output (2 tanks 2 supports) and with Fan the Hammer not being as effective vs tanks anymore I think he will get picked more often now, probably even without the 1 hero restriction.
By the way what do you think about that restriction? I believe it makes for far less compositions and less cheeses, which makes watching the game less exciting overall. I think it is good to have *some* games with that restriction so players do not tunnelvision on a few heroes and other heroes get discovered more. Outside of that I don't think it adds anything to the game.
|
|
Taiche
France1963 Posts
OK it's been a while since I posted here for the last time but I started playing Overwatch with the open beta and I'm trying to improve myself a lot. So I just wanted to drop by and say thank you for your vids
|
On June 17 2016 07:40 clickrush wrote: I can't be bothered to find the exact game but it was recent on Lijang Tower I believe where (I think Envyus) used Zen and competely countered a Zarya blackhole. The advantage is that he can still cast his ult if he gets caught by it. Also Roadhog seems to get more attention lately I think because people figured that the best you can do vs double sustain is to just burst one target down quickly. He also shines vs teams that don't have a particularly high damage output (2 tanks 2 supports) and with Fan the Hammer not being as effective vs tanks anymore I think he will get picked more often now, probably even without the 1 hero restriction.
By the way what do you think about that restriction? I believe it makes for far less compositions and less cheeses, which makes watching the game less exciting overall. I think it is good to have *some* games with that restriction so players do not tunnelvision on a few heroes and other heroes get discovered more. Outside of that I don't think it adds anything to the game.
I just casted some games today for the SSL and there was actually a few games of Zenyatta (and on KotH). In this vod at 2:21:08 Kamaz Uses Zenyatta. A game to watch for it. I will input more on this throughout the weekend as I watch Gosu Gamers, cast, and study for stratway 9.
As for your second point. I think for now it is sadly necessary. I 100% agree that in theory a 2, 3, or no hero limit would expand the potential for strategies and viewer experience. However as it stands it wasn't even strictly double McCree that prompted the change. Double Winston is also something uniquely hard to balance right now because 2 winstons do 108 damage per second and will shred a mercy in no time flat. So While I agree that overall its not the best method, is the as it stands the only method that gives players the room to experiment. We wouldn't be seeing as much Pharah if you could grab 2x McCree and a soldier or Widowmaker, and other such instances. In time I hope that the balance of the game and the way compositions are discovered allows for multiple heroes, but honestly its just not there right now.
Tl;dr - I don't like it personally, but its logic is undeniable and until there is more balance it is the way to go.
P.s. apologize for the shorter response busy with casting this weekend
On June 18 2016 05:57 Taiche wrote:OK it's been a while since I posted here for the last time but I started playing Overwatch with the open beta and I'm trying to improve myself a lot. So I just wanted to drop by and say thank you for your vids
Thank you so much! I really appreciate this! I love doing the series and knowing that this series is a place you go to improve makes it all worth it! I love learning overwatch and growing as an analyst/caster but knowing I can help others really is why I do the series. Thank you for your time!
|
Episode 9 is out. Looking at Kings Row and how to defend point a and streets, both with old meta comps and with the new patch. Episode Link
|
Episode 10 released - Link for the lazy
Summary: This episodes looks at 5 games from the OG Invitational and Alienware monthly cup to find the core comps tactics and strategies for attacking on Gibraltar. This episode covers all three points, and hopes to highlight how different the first point is for the last two.
|
Episode 11 is out! Another how to improve individually. Part two focuses on the concept of positioning.
|
Nice video. You covered alot of interesting aspects of positioning and the general approach on improving it. When I can add a few things to this:
You showed some nice examples and ways to think about positioning. But I believe there are some fundamental aspects of positioning which alot of good players know intuitively but aren't covered in the video. You mention "angles" in some places of the video but what is a good angle? I for example only started playing shooters fairly recently (1+ year or so CS:GO) and I'am already pretty old for a gamer. I would like to know more about which angles are good in which situation because I think there are some fundamentals applied and combined here.
I think the concept of positioning relates best to Mercy, because that is literally the only thing you do with her, so your success is based practically solely on that. But her positioning is very different compared to most damage dealing heroes. I would find it interesting what you can say about Mercy positioning.
You showed alot of good examples and concepts about good positioning but didn't really touch on bad positioning, except for mentioning it. I think there are alot of bad habbits a player can have which can be identified. Often players tunnelvision completely on a way to position for example:
* always trying to come from behind, because it is easier to kill an unaware target, but this is situational and requires map awareness so you can decide wether or not you can pull it off and the timing of it etc.
* always backing out because of fear of getting hit, overly defensive positioning leads to you having less information and less overall impact and even if you close in again you decreased your chance of getting a good angle on someone because you don't know where ppl are etc.
* always getting in the face of people, happens especially with bad aimers and is often paired with jumping and moving around like crazy. But as you already covered in a previous video: It is very easy to improve aiming rapidly with a little practice (in practice range for example because it lets you focus on that single thing) if you have relatively bad aiming.
* often people move generally too much around just because they get bored and out of bad habit instead of just staying on a good spot
* in the contrary there are players who will tunnelvision on a position completely and always try to get to the same spot which can be easily abused
|
Episode 12 is out! Link for the lazy :D
@Clickrush I haven't had the time to sit down and give your post a proper response. But I wanted to say that I agree with what you are saying. I especially agree with your point about not covering angles completely. I just kinda brushed over it. I hope to revisit the topic in the coming months and definitely cover angles. All of the bad habits you mention are definitely worth noting. Honestly I kinda wish I could just add some of things you said to the video
Again apologize for the shorter response, been a crazy weekend! I can't stress enough on point you are about this though.
Edit 1: Would like to clarify on your points that this all goes back to situational awareness. Which is something I need to cover in future self-improvement episodes. I will probably be using some of these examples you present as they are good examples of positioning situations that can be good or bad depending on the conditions. Thank you for your contributions and thoughts to the thread. They are really helpful and insightful! :D
|
Episode 13 is out! Another installment of the self-improvement sub-series. Link for the lazy
|
|
|
Episode 16 is out! Looking at Mei play from Team OhNo and Team Liquid in the NA Regionals of the Atlantic Showdown
|
Bump - Stratwatch 17 is out! This one is taking a look at better managing ultimates and what advantages that can give you!
|
Huge thanks for these! Started playing competitive about a week ago, and this series has helped me out quite a bit.
|
|
|
|