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HonestTea
5007 Posts
The OnGameNet Star Challenge (OSL Qualifiers) Group D match, originally scheduled for Nov 14, has been postponed to Dec 5.
OnGameNet has accepted SKT T1's request to postpone the scheduled matches in light of the passing of Midas' father.
OGN will not move any of the other scheduled groups, to minimize scheduling confusion for players in other groups.
Thus, there will be no matches played on the 14th. Group E will play on the 21st, and Group F will play on the 28th, as scheduled.
source: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=19062&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
Group D: Shark < Fantasy II > Midas XellOs < Fantasy II > Anytime Winners < Katrina > Losers < Katrina > Final < Blue Storm >
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that's really generous, I hope midas can pull through all the stronger in this
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51138 Posts
What will be scheduled to be broadcasted at the usual time of 7:30pm Wednesday then? Just wondering.
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On November 12 2007 18:45 GTR-2-Go wrote: What will be scheduled to be broadcasted at the usual time of 7:30pm Wednesday then? Just wondering.
Don't know, but no live matches, that's for sure.
Reruns?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
very classy of OGN to allow this
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On November 12 2007 18:51 HonestTea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2007 18:45 GTR-2-Go wrote: What will be scheduled to be broadcasted at the usual time of 7:30pm Wednesday then? Just wondering. Don't know, but no live matches, that's for sure. Reruns? Probably, do they have a OSL re-wind type thing? This is so sad also, Midas already has the stress of a progamer and now his father has passed.. I hope he will win or do something recognizable in his future games, Midas fighting!
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
It makes sense for everybody.
Even the opposing players... I mean, Shark, Xellos, and Anytime don't want to play Midas who is two days removed from his father's wake. The fans wouldn't want to watch either.
Just the right thing to do. Still, glad to see the decision being made.
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Glad this happened. Midas needs a break hes been through alot.
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gold decision by OGN!
but i want Anytime to win.
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
Sudden and rather unexpected illness.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On November 12 2007 18:56 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: very classy of OGN to allow this
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That's very understanding of OGN.
This never happens for pro sports that I know of, but OGN is willing to disrupt their schedule for the sake of one player.
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Well I guess its nice of OGN but I reallly wanted to Anytime play..
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Braavos36362 Posts
It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this.
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Considering there are still less than 300 progamers with Midas being in the top handful, I think they can easily allow 1 hold. Plus, these are kids we are dealing with here too, a lot of them anyways.
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United States20661 Posts
Now Midas has to pull a NaDa and crush people in his father's name.
Minus that yearlong slump in between the death and the crushing.
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United States7488 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this.
Though I agree with this mostly, I find it more understandable since most other professional sports are not played mainly by underage players. It is arguable much more difficult for a teenager to be going through something such as this than it would be for someone well into their twenties.
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United States20661 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:50 semioldguy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. Though I agree with this mostly, I find it more understandable since most other professional sports are not played mainly by underage players. It is arguable much more difficult for a teenager to be going through something such as this than it would be for someone well into their twenties.
Right. Midas and co. are not Brett Favre.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:58 Last Romantic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2007 01:50 semioldguy wrote:On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. Though I agree with this mostly, I find it more understandable since most other professional sports are not played mainly by underage players. It is arguable much more difficult for a teenager to be going through something such as this than it would be for someone well into their twenties. Right. Midas and co. are not Brett Favre. Midas isn't under 18, he's 20 and there are people in the NBA younger than he is.
I agree with OGN's decision but the age difference in this issue is immaterial. If it were Flash, it'd be a much stronger argument, but Midas, no.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
you are either hating on midas or not appreciating how huge a parent funeral is in korea.
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On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this. Well this is basically the minor leagues, and with OSL delayed by tiebreakers, adding another OSC week won't disrupt the schedule. So the only ones really affected at all are the other players in the group, who are probably happy to defer for Midas' sake, and the fans who'd want to watch on Wednesday, the majority of whom don't want to see Midas get kicked while he's down, and would rather see 5 games than 3 (if he dropped out).
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I guess it's also true that progaming schedules are very subject to change and fluid, what with those optional tiebreakers, OSL sponsorship delays, OGN/MBC/KeSPA holdoffs, etc. There's less of an expectation here that things rigidly stick to schedule.
Also, unless I'm missing something here, the leagues don't charge for tickets? (Or did I make stupid assumption -_- ) So the leagues are less obligated in that manner as well.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On November 13 2007 02:20 oneofthem wrote: you are either hating on midas or not appreciating how huge a parent funeral is in korea. No, those aren't the only two choices.
I said that OGN and Anytime/Shark/Xellos should be commended for allowing the delay (if the players had a say in it), and that in this situation it's probably the right result, for various reasons including watchability (who wants to watch 3 games instead of 5), the bad publicity, etc.
But I'm also saying it's unfair for the 3 other players that it's being delayed and that the more "just" action would be to play the group and leave it to Midas to decide whether he wants to withdraw or play or not.
I'd say the same thing whether it was Boxer or Savior or Mumyung. It has nothing to do with "hating" on Midas.
And if a parental funeral is culturally that important, Midas can withdraw from the OSC group.
Again, this the unfairness is pointless because the other three players have said they are fine with the delay. But what if they weren't? Then OGN should play it.
I can agree with the moral reasoning behind the decision to postpone but still think it's unfair without hating on Midas or Korean culture.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
you are making some wild jabs at argument without the necessary grasp of fundamentals to frame the issues. simply stating 'it is unfair for x x x' is not going to make an argument for 'they should play on.' you need to argue whether it is proper for these unfairness to be tolerated or mediated.
a quick glance, some examples
And if a parental funeral is culturally that important, Midas can withdraw from the OSC group.
You are making a wild assertion here without declaring it. I will present a different conclusion with a different set of positive appeals.
If the tournament organizers respect both Midas' professional commitments and personal circumstances,with a commitment to make the situation the best for everyone, they postpone the matches.
since you have not asserted the respective commitments that each side should be expected to hold, it is difficult to hold you to them specifically, but it is clear that you attribute too much duty to midas and not enough to the rest. this is perhaps a peculiar symptom of looking at the world through permissions and rights. but in any case, going into the finer distinctions between positive commitment and negative permission will not be all that well received.
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Braavos36362 Posts
While I feel I owe it to you to respond in some way, I've been warned by several people to simply never, ever, ever engage in debate with you.
I've already violated that a bit in this thread, but I've decided for my sake to stop right now.
So we'll just have to disagree, I'm okay with that.
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I don't think anyone minds. They all probably want a lil practice.
It's a pretty gross group besides wankster shark.
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Braavos36362 Posts
Shark was so close to eliminating Bisu in the last ODT.
Yes, very sick group.
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United States7488 Posts
On November 13 2007 08:56 SuperJongMan wrote: It's a pretty gross group besides wankster shark.
c'mon, Shark isn't that bad. He's qualified for the leagues before.
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Osaka26964 Posts
I think the nature of progaming is different than that of other professional sports though. The community is pretty small and close knit. Players from different teams often practice with one another for upcoming matches, and players/managers accommodate others in their preparations. Players travel together to other, non-OGN/MBC events to play as well. Because of these relationships that are at both a personal and professional level, I think everyone involved would be happier to delay it. I also do not think this is only an OGN decision, but a decision reached upon by all members involved. It is far different from the nature of the other leagues you mentioned.
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Braavos36362 Posts
I agree, and for that reason I think it was the correct decision.
My point was what would've happened if Anytime or someone else in that group knew they would be very busy at the date that it was postponed to, and protested?
Would it be up to OGN? I know in this case it worked out because it was so obvious what the right thing was to do--I mean it doesn't get much more sad than a parent's death--but in the future, and in more borderline cases, they may have to address the unfairness of it.
Kudos to Anytime/Shark/Xellos for being cool about it, though given the nature of Korean progaming as you said, it's probably not a big surprise they didn't mind.
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Canada9720 Posts
On November 13 2007 09:17 Manifesto7 wrote: I think the nature of progaming is different than that of other professional sports though. The community is pretty small and close knit. Players from different teams often practice with one another for upcoming matches, and players/managers accommodate others in their preparations. Players travel together to other, non-OGN/MBC events to play as well. Because of these relationships that are at both a personal and professional level, I think everyone involved would be happier to delay it. I also do not think this is only an OGN decision, but a decision reached upon by all members involved. It is far different from the nature of the other leagues you mentioned. I disagree. In many other professional sports, friendships grow between athletes who play for competing teams, particularly the athletes who excel at the sport. One well-known example that comes to mind is the friendship between Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley (I think that they were friends before the dream team, but I'm not sure. In any case, there are many other examples). Because of the required physical nature of practicing with someone in conventional sports, it's naturally more difficult to practice with someone on another team than for an online game. It seems these friendships form more "on the battle-field", as it were, so while different in its founding, I don't think its necessarily different in its nature. These sorts of friendships can be found in pro BW too, I think, and perhaps even meld with the "practice-buddy" friendship.
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It's a different society, a different culture and a different view than say, American sports leagues. With pro-starcraft, you have players like Nada, stand up on stage and cry as he explains about his father's recent death, and have the entire venue reduce to tears. Pro starcraft is much more personality driven than American sports.
The differences between pro-starcraft and American sports leagues are important, and shouldn't be changed just to be more "sports like".
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is awesome32246 Posts
This is Starcraft, not the NBA were you got 10000 kids waiting out to take a spot in. Every player who played a game in Starcraft has a background. Anyone following PL and OSL daily knows all the players and it sucks when someone can't play for something like this. I like it the way it is and im glad the organizers decided to postpone this for better games - fair games for everyone.
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is awesome32246 Posts
On November 13 2007 10:48 CTStalker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2007 09:17 Manifesto7 wrote: I think the nature of progaming is different than that of other professional sports though. The community is pretty small and close knit. Players from different teams often practice with one another for upcoming matches, and players/managers accommodate others in their preparations. Players travel together to other, non-OGN/MBC events to play as well. Because of these relationships that are at both a personal and professional level, I think everyone involved would be happier to delay it. I also do not think this is only an OGN decision, but a decision reached upon by all members involved. It is far different from the nature of the other leagues you mentioned. I disagree. In many other professional sports, friendships grow between athletes who play for competing teams, particularly the athletes who excel at the sport. One well-known example that comes to mind is the friendship between Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley (I think that they were friends before the dream team, but I'm not sure. In any case, there are many other examples). Because of the required physical nature of practicing with someone in conventional sports, it's naturally more difficult to practice with someone on another team than for an online game. It seems these friendships form more "on the battle-field", as it were, so while different in its founding, I don't think its necessarily different in its nature. These sorts of friendships can be found in pro BW too, I think, and perhaps even meld with the "practice-buddy" friendship.
Your example seems more of an exception to the rule (at least in the sports I follow). Of course players exchange some words sometimes. But when the player base is this small, and players practice with each other a lot, and they travel together, some live together or know each other from internet playing a long time ago (specially when they are in the same country), things change.
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Canada5062 Posts
On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this.
While I agree it does not appear very "professional", and I would personally prefer that the matches went ahead as you suggested, the move by OGN and the other players is understandable in the current Korean context. Actually, it's almost unavoidable. Death is obviously a sensitive issue in every culture, but the Koreans attach particular significance to it and it would be tantamount to political suicide for any person, group or organization (commercial or otherwise) to appear indifferent or callous in such case. I am not necessarily suggesting that OGN and the other players are not, in fact, sympathetic to Midas's circumstances (I'm sure they are), but putting personal convictions aside, they probably had little choice but to agree to the postponement. No one enjoys being cyber-terrorized and burned in effigy, afterall.
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It appears other countries other than Korea have such disgusting compassion. Link.
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On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this.
totally agree except for a few things that you're missing. first, the singularity of korean (cyber) culture. if the tournament proceeded as scheduled and midas lost, how would you think fans(not to mention "his fans") are going to react? all the blames falls into SKT and OGN's ears. it's not so professional decision, i know, but couch Ju and OGN has made the most "optimal" decision. at least i think so. i recommend you study some korean and then try websurfing and read the dirty words from sc-relevant sites if you really want to know what could happen when things go the other way around. it wouldnt be so hard for you to imagine what could possibly follows.
second, progamers're pros but they're still just kids (at least in korea). i'm not being too subjective. many koreans dont consider progamers as full-fledged grown-ups. team staffs, cabletv casters and even their fans think progamers constantly need to be attended to. even if midas has decided to play as planned, couch Ju probably would have persuaded not to.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On November 12 2007 23:07 Kacas wrote: how he father died? pulmonary thrombosis
(something like that)
In Korean: 폐혈전
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On November 14 2007 01:55 BeatsMe97 wrote: second, progamers're pros but they're still just kids (at least in korea). i'm not being too subjective. many koreans dont consider progamers as full-fledged grown-ups. team staffs, cabletv casters and even their fans think progamers constantly need to be attended to. even if midas has decided to play as planned, couch Ju probably would have persuaded not to.
Wow, i wasn't really aware of that. I guess veteran progamers don't fit in that scenario, but if late teens/early twenties does, it changes my perspective of how the programing scene is in korea.
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so... how did this end? : O
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 28 2007 16:57 Jonteman wrote: so... how did this end? : O
Has December 5th come?
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
On November 28 2007 17:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Has December 5th come?
JONTEMAN IS FROM THE FUTURE
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Valhalla18444 Posts
oh man i didn't know
i'm sorry jonteman please put a good word in with the masters for me
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
HE'S ONLY TWO WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE DUMMY
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lol
I read this post 2 weeks ago and remembered it as 1 week postpone, so I didn't care to read it now xD
Bad thread bump ~________~
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On November 28 2007 17:56 HonestTea wrote: HE'S ONLY TWO WEEKS INTO THE FUTURE DUMMY
WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENS TWO WEEKS FROM NOW
IF THERE'S MASTERS DO YOU WANT TO PISS 'EM OFF???? I DON'T
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On November 13 2007 01:23 Hot_Bid wrote: It's nice of OGN and of the players to accept this, but really the group should be played as scheduled. All three other players were practicing too, and yes Midas' situation sucks but it's just a more extreme version of "extenuating circumstances."
I agree there are many reasons, some compelling, that OGN would want to postpone this. But if Progaming is a real sport it should be treated as such, they'd never stop NBA playoffs or a Tennis tournament match because someone's family died. Midas can either withdraw from the group or play, those are his only options really.
Very nice of OGN and the other players to accept this.
coz of such thinking sport lost the sold. Very GM of OGN and let the spirit comeback, lets kick such money money money sick things like this what hot bid said out of sports, sports are played coz of the ppl and players, not coz some company wants to make fucking money!
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HonestTea
5007 Posts
OH SHIT GERPU IS FROM THE FUTURE TOO
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Osaka26964 Posts
I guess English really loses its grip as the international language soon then... and Ill be out of a job.
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Manifesto, Japanese will be intenational soon so don't worry!
Tea, i'm from the past, can't you see it?
I'm sorry i attacked hot bid, things he said are great and everyone should think like that
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Valhalla18444 Posts
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On November 28 2007 22:09 Gerpu wrote:Manifesto, Japanese will be intenational soon so don't worry! Tea, i'm from the past, can't you see it? I'm sorry i attacked hot bid, things he said are great and everyone should think like that
Nope, its gonna be chinese. Just ask jonteman.
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I think we need to consider the culture of Korea, and as big as starcraft is there, its not even close to bigger "real" sports in America, such as NBA and the NFL. Starcraft is therefore, smaller which doesnt make as big as a deal and people critizing, and the schedule isnt as strict as lets say the NBA because they play 82 games, travelling home and away and they cant just postpone that. It's nice that a huge organization would postpone for one player, death needs to be grieved and playing starcraft while thinking about your deceased parents will not help at all. And for the other players in the group, I'm sure they dont want to play a younger player that is going through hard time. I still think Midas is going to have a breakdown during the games, especially if he doesnt go to the next round.
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