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On April 14 2024 02:29 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2024 23:28 Smorrie wrote: Good post KogeT. I'm pretty sure that data set also includes 973's heyday which amplifies this even more.
SK vs Bisu in ASL is also a great representation of this - Bisu got ahead too far, but SK cancelled his macro hatch and put down a dual den which gave him just barely enough time to find an effective window and take that W. Using his muta pressure he prevented scouting to obfuscate his off-beat bust. He knew it wasn't worth trying to stretch a game which's outcome was pretty much set already.
Taking that Protoss generally is getting increasingly better at applying different ways of pressure and getting better reads, at least at higher levels of play, is pretty much why higher level zergs in this thread are saying there is no advantage. Yea that was such a genius play from SK but to newer fan might just look like a standard hydra bust. I love how freaking deep the pros have taken the meta in BW.
Soulkey best mind gamer right now.
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On April 14 2024 00:39 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2024 22:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So by that definition Soulkey is a genius in your book ? he is the progamer that play the less. He spend weeks with rain grinding league of legends or just taking day off all the time ( he surely is a genius and his wins have nothing to do with balance right ? ). The thing is that what tells you in those stats that you show about pvz those zergs are not genuises ? How do you know how much a person plays or not ? You seem to be too concerned about my comment about Bonyth being a genius? I think he streams one or two times a week, at most? And most of the times he has to wait forever to get a game because at his mmr he can't find foreign opponents and has to wait to be matched with a Korean who will instantly leave or accept to play at a terrible TR. That's all the practice at "high level" he can get as far as I know, unless he practices offstream like a mad man (but with whom?). You notice I didn't say Dewalt is a genius? It's just my opinion about one player in particular. So I don't really know how to answer your question about those Zergs not being geniuses because that's not what I implied. Some of them probably are. Soulkey probably is, given he and Rain are champions in both SC1 and SC2. But keep in mind that despite what they're doing now as streamers, they all sat their asses off in teamhouses 15 years ago playing Starcraft at least 12 hours a day, with coaches and high level practice partners.
Bonyth is using korean VPN to be matched with koreans and play at better TR with them. It's not perfect and the VPN is not always stable, but he is able to get practice with koreans. I think eon is right that you never know how much anyone is playing unless you are living with them. I'm sure offline practice for the top players is a must to stay sharp/improve on small details of the game.
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On April 14 2024 21:06 BulgarianToss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 00:39 TMNT wrote:On April 12 2024 22:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So by that definition Soulkey is a genius in your book ? he is the progamer that play the less. He spend weeks with rain grinding league of legends or just taking day off all the time ( he surely is a genius and his wins have nothing to do with balance right ? ). The thing is that what tells you in those stats that you show about pvz those zergs are not genuises ? How do you know how much a person plays or not ? You seem to be too concerned about my comment about Bonyth being a genius? I think he streams one or two times a week, at most? And most of the times he has to wait forever to get a game because at his mmr he can't find foreign opponents and has to wait to be matched with a Korean who will instantly leave or accept to play at a terrible TR. That's all the practice at "high level" he can get as far as I know, unless he practices offstream like a mad man (but with whom?). You notice I didn't say Dewalt is a genius? It's just my opinion about one player in particular. So I don't really know how to answer your question about those Zergs not being geniuses because that's not what I implied. Some of them probably are. Soulkey probably is, given he and Rain are champions in both SC1 and SC2. But keep in mind that despite what they're doing now as streamers, they all sat their asses off in teamhouses 15 years ago playing Starcraft at least 12 hours a day, with coaches and high level practice partners. Bonyth is using korean VPN to be matched with koreans and play at better TR with them. It's not perfect and the VPN is not always stable, but he is able to get practice with koreans. I think eon is right that you never know how much anyone is playing unless you are living with them. I'm sure offline practice for the top players is a must to stay sharp/improve on small details of the game. I know, I watched his streams. But one thing for sure: he plays much less than Dewalt, the top Chinese players, and the Korean amateurs. But he's at their level, if not better (bar the Koreans). You can't say that for anyone else in the foreign scene. That's what make him a genius among the foreigners. Either that, or Protoss is too easy lol.
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Thanks jinjin for your videos! I downloaded it and cut out just the part where JaeDong switches the commentary to English. It's fucking hilarious and so honest. "Blitz, troy, citadel - what the fuck?" "Fucking protoss!!!!!" Long live aiur!!!
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On April 14 2024 21:56 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 21:06 BulgarianToss wrote:On April 14 2024 00:39 TMNT wrote:On April 12 2024 22:00 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: So by that definition Soulkey is a genius in your book ? he is the progamer that play the less. He spend weeks with rain grinding league of legends or just taking day off all the time ( he surely is a genius and his wins have nothing to do with balance right ? ). The thing is that what tells you in those stats that you show about pvz those zergs are not genuises ? How do you know how much a person plays or not ? You seem to be too concerned about my comment about Bonyth being a genius? I think he streams one or two times a week, at most? And most of the times he has to wait forever to get a game because at his mmr he can't find foreign opponents and has to wait to be matched with a Korean who will instantly leave or accept to play at a terrible TR. That's all the practice at "high level" he can get as far as I know, unless he practices offstream like a mad man (but with whom?). You notice I didn't say Dewalt is a genius? It's just my opinion about one player in particular. So I don't really know how to answer your question about those Zergs not being geniuses because that's not what I implied. Some of them probably are. Soulkey probably is, given he and Rain are champions in both SC1 and SC2. But keep in mind that despite what they're doing now as streamers, they all sat their asses off in teamhouses 15 years ago playing Starcraft at least 12 hours a day, with coaches and high level practice partners. Bonyth is using korean VPN to be matched with koreans and play at better TR with them. It's not perfect and the VPN is not always stable, but he is able to get practice with koreans. I think eon is right that you never know how much anyone is playing unless you are living with them. I'm sure offline practice for the top players is a must to stay sharp/improve on small details of the game. I know, I watched his streams. But one thing for sure: he plays much less than Dewalt, the top Chinese players, and the Korean amateurs. But he's at their level, if not better (bar the Koreans). You can't say that for anyone else in the foreign scene. That's what make him a genius among the foreigners. Either that, or Protoss is too easy lol. I wish he had more time and better connection so he could play those tier 2 and 3 korean tournaments. That guy is a true BW genius, for real.
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Very interesting discussion so far, guys.
Please continue
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jinjin messed this up. he gotta come out public and apologize
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On April 15 2024 02:44 cRoSsyy wrote: jinjin messed this up. he gotta come out public and apologize
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