The biggest boxing fight in recent history is fast approaching.
Pundits the world over are betting Floyd wins on points, yet a a large number of people are insisting Manny has what it takes to break down his undefeated opponent.
It is highly unlikely to see a knock out, going to points then, I am weighing in Manny's side.
Come May 2nd, in Vegas we will see who is the greatest pound for pound fighter ever.
Come May 2nd, in Vegas we will see who is the greatest pound for pound fighter ever.
I can't see Mayweather losing that title, even if he loses, to someone who has over 10% non-win results, and over 7% of his results being losses, regardless of strength of competition.
Mayweather will win he always finds a way, will be the best fight on my generation and i was 9 when Lenox fought Tyson, this will be even bigger.
Pacman seems very hungry for this fight though there is no question, but unless he gets his left hand working he isn't going to trouble Floyd. I see Floyd making this a defensive masterclass for 6 rounds, before he starts clinching his way through the latter rounds.
Im intrigued with the undercard as well, im sure there are going be some great fights on that.
116-112 my prediction in favor of Money.
Undercard i can see so far;
Jesse Hart, 16-0 (13KOs) middleweight will fight for the USBA belt vs an undisclosed opponent Vasyl Lomachenko 3-1 (1KO) vs. Gamalier Rodriguez 25-2-3 (17KOs) for WBA Featherweight title Chris Pearson 11-0 (9KOs) vs Said El Harrak 12-2-2 (7KOs) Junior Middleweight contest Leo Santa Cruz 29-0-1 (17KOs) will defend his WBC Super Bantamweight World title vs undisclosed opponent Andrew Tabiti 9-0 (9KOs) vs Anthony Caputo Smith 15-4 (10KOs) Cruiserweight contest 8 rounds.
Wow actually apart from Jese Hart and the Pearson fight im not that intrigued
Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
Mayweather wants to beat Rocky's record of 39 and 0 i think which is 3 fights away afaik. Or the record is 3 more wins. Pretty sure he will go until he hits that, or at least ties with it.
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
I think it is the last fight for Manny.
Mayweather has one more fight after this one on his contract.
Top Boxers: Amir Khan is in great form (fights Chris Algeiri end of May), even Anthony Mundine is boxing well these days (fights Austin Trout end of May).
But the one to really watch, is Danny Garcia : 30 wins - no losses. He will move up through the weights and ranks no probs. Dude totally shrek rekt Khan. Garcia's last fight was against Peterson was a close one (some say it was contraversial even) But a win is a win.
The great Wladimir Klitschko is fighting this month (25/4) against Bryant Jennings (undefeated to date). Will be a great fight too! Heavy weights are no joke.
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
I think it is the last fight for Manny.
Mayweather has one more fight after this one on his contract.
Top Boxers: Amir Khan is in great form (fights Chris Algeiri end of May), even Anthony Mundine is boxing well these days (fights Austin Trout end of May).
But the one to really watch, is Danny Garcia : 30 wins - no losses. He will move up through the weights and ranks no probs. Dude totally shrek rekt Khan. Garcia's last fight was against Peterson was a close one (some say it was contraversial even) But a win is a win.
Really? The guy imo was outclassed by a poor Lamont Peterson who isn't anything special in my eyes. He gets beaten alot by boxers. Now obviously he is 30-0 so doesn't lose fights but he gets beaten up in the face etc. I mean i know Amir lost violently to Garcia but the first two rounds holy hell Khan beat the hell out of him with his speed, it looked like Garcia was an ametur. But as we all know with Amir his chin got the best of him and he went down like a sack of spuds. However if they were to meet again with the big man Virgil Hunter in his corner i would back Khan again to be heavily favored. He has also looked alot more "safe" at 147 even though i guess he hasn't really faced a puncher that this weight yet?
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
I think it is the last fight for Manny.
Mayweather has one more fight after this one on his contract.
Top Boxers: Amir Khan is in great form (fights Chris Algeiri end of May), even Anthony Mundine is boxing well these days (fights Austin Trout end of May).
But the one to really watch, is Danny Garcia : 30 wins - no losses. He will move up through the weights and ranks no probs. Dude totally shrek rekt Khan. Garcia's last fight was against Peterson was a close one (some say it was contraversial even) But a win is a win.
Really? The guy imo was outclassed by a poor Lamont Peterson who isn't anything special in my eyes. He gets beaten alot by boxers. Now obviously he is 30-0 so doesn't lose fights but he gets beaten up in the face etc. I mean i know Amir lost violently to Garcia but the first two rounds holy hell Khan beat the hell out of him with his speed, it looked like Garcia was an ametur. But as we all know with Amir his chin got the best of him and he went down like a sack of spuds. However if they were to meet again with the big man Virgil Hunter in his corner i would back Khan again to be heavily favored. He has also looked alot more "safe" at 147 even though i guess he hasn't really faced a puncher that this weight yet?
I have to agree with you, if Garcia v Khan 2 happens - - Khan will get him points no worries. Khan is looking the real deal these days. Chris Algieri is up for his second loss on the 29th of May (the first to Manny).
Yeah that Macau trip for Manny vs Algieri was hilarious. Guy got pummeled by Pacman, you would expect something similar (maybe not as brutal) that Khan will dish out to him. Unless Algieri really has improved and learnt his lesson which could make things cool.
I read a conclusion to the last fight of Garcia vs Peterson, that there will be a lot of 147lb boxers lining up to face him next fight for a mini pay day lol. Moving on, have you seen Anthony Joshua fight? Guy gives me sick nerd chills every time he steps into the ring, even though all his fights have pretty much been vs bums so far. He is due to fight Olympic killer Kevin Johnson at the end of May which is where we will see what he is made of for sure, but right now still he gives me chills. Fights again on 9th May before the 30th May showdown with Johnson.
Haha nice :D Yeah he is built so perfectly as well. 6ft 6, pure muscle machine. Problem is i think he is a bit too late on the scene to fight a Klichtsko before they retire shame.
Wilder is in line for a shot at a Klitchsko though right? That be awesome. Also David Haye is on a "comeback" trail too afaik.
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
Mayweather wants to beat Rocky's record of 39 and 0 i think which is 3 fights away afaik. Or the record is 3 more wins. Pretty sure he will go until he hits that, or at least ties with it.
Marciano went 49-0... currently Mayweather is 47-0.
Larry Holmes went 48-0 before beating Michael Spinx twice and getting robbed by the judges in both fights. Holmes is the most under rated "great heavyweight" by casual fans. Hard core historians know how great he is though.
and Of course, Tyson absolutely destroyed both Spinx and Holmes.
I have limited experience in boxing but I believe Mayweather is heavily favored for several reasons - He movement and footwook are more slick (harder for pac man to hit) - He has a 5 inch reach advantage (easier to defend/counterpunch) - He is Taller (Pac Man has to angle his punches upward) - He can take more punches (Pac-man has a glass chin after being put to sleep my Marquiz)
The only advantage Pac Man has is power and being Southpaw. He will have to be aggressive but that leaves him open to counterpunches which is very risky.
All that being said im somewhat bias because i have 1000$ on Mayweather. If they fought 5 years ago I would have bet on Pac-Man.
On April 17 2015 21:32 Dizmaul wrote: Is this the last fight for both of them seeing as they are almost 40? also I'm not a huge boxing fan but these guys are pretty mainstream. Who takes there place? I don't even know who the other top boxers are. What big names do people have to look forward too after this fight?
Mayweather wants to beat Rocky's record of 39 and 0 i think which is 3 fights away afaik. Or the record is 3 more wins. Pretty sure he will go until he hits that, or at least ties with it.
Marciano went 49-0... currently Mayweather is 47-0.
Larry Holmes went 48-0 before beating Michael Spinx twice and getting robbed by the judges in both fights. Holmes is the most under rated "great heavyweight" by casual fans. Hard core historians know how great he is though.
and Of course, Tyson absolutely destroyed both Spinx and Holmes.
Thank you for this. That error really bothered me for some reason.
Regarding the fight, this will be very interesting. It reminds me of the build up to Hagler/Hearns, and the methods that Hearns used to try and catch Hagler on the downside of his career (basically dodging him for years the way Floyd dodged Manny for years, and I can get into this if you really want, but suffice it to say that a guy that is actually interested in a fight doesn't demand 100% of the PPV money, that's a coward's tactic), and he got knocked out anyway.
There are a few things about this fight to note, and they are, to me, what makes this so enticing. It's a very intriguing fight from a technical stand point.
On Floyd's side:
He's an amazing boxer, I won't bother with all that stuff, but some sort of trivia fact that's relevant to Floyd... How and why Floyd will win on points is obvious.
But Floyd has more power than people think too. He can definitely end the fight early, if he gets the opportunity. He got tired of breaking his hands in every fight, which is why he switched from Reyes to Winning gloves many years ago. They're like big pillows, and they kept him from breaking his hands. He uses Grant now, and despite their popularity, I am unfamiliar with them, but I imagine they're still not as hard as Reyes. Either way, he protects his hands in fights, which is why he doesn't KO guys as often. To think he doesn't have the power to KO Manny is foolish, and to think that Manny won't leave himself open from time to time is also foolish. If he slips up too badly, he'll get KOed. I don't think this will happen.
On Manny's side (the more intriguing side, imo):
He has everything that everyone has always said is needed to take out Floyd. An endless motor, great power, and speed. More importantly, he listens to his coach, the coach that designed a winning game plan for DLH when he fought Floyd. DLH abandoned the game plan around round 5, and Floyd took over, while Roach continued to implore Oscar to throw the fucking jab. God knows why he wouldn't listen as he started to get picked apart by Floyd, but Floyd anticipated everything that happened in that fight, and blah blah... anyway, Roach is brilliant, and Manny listens. That's a winning combination.
Floyd has historically struggled against southpaws. This is the case for many orthodox fighters, but what greatly affects Floyd is his defensive style. He is so accustomed to rolling his shoulder to deflect punches that he continues to do that against southpaws (you can see this historically. Zab rocked him a couple of times, and other guys have gotten to him too). And rolling his shoulder is very effective, of course, when the other fighter throws a left hook or a straight right. When the other fighter throws a right hook or a straight left, as it so happens, it leaves his face wide open. He's been rocked a couple of times on those punches. Manny developed a right hook over the years, and it's almost as dangerous as his straight. If you don't know about his right hook, check the fight with Hatton. It's not comparable at all to Floyd, I know, but it's a good demonstration of his power with the right. He rocked him twice in the first, and put him down at about a minute into the fight with the right. Of course, he ended it with one of the most devastating lefts I've ever seen.
The point is this: if Floyd leaves himself open the way he did when he fought Judah or Corely, or any other southpaw, Manny has the power to KO him in a single punch. He cannot allow himself to eat a straight left from Pacquiao. He counters the SP stance by coming out of the Philly shell and putting his right hand up high. That distracts him, and his punch output drops significantly. He's not comfortable fighting with both hands high at all.
Floyd has historically struggled with the right hook -> pivot from SPs too. When they pivot away (moving toward the opponent's back), it's very hard to follow up with a counter straight. In general, it's a very awkward way for an orthodox fighter to rotate, and one becomes so accustomed to fighting other orthodox fighters that it's difficult to adjust for one fight (it's hard to break 30+ years of habit in 3 months is what I'm saying). One thing that certainly plays favorably for Floyd is that he can counter a jab with a left hook if Manny hangs it out there.
There are a lot of things at play here... I'm excited for it to finally happen, though (like most people) I wish it would have taken place five years ago instead.
On April 18 2015 07:32 whatisthisasheep wrote: First poster here:
I have limited experience in boxing but I believe Mayweather is heavily favored for several reasons - He movement and footwook are more slick (harder for pac man to hit) - He has a 5 inch reach advantage (easier to defend/counterpunch) - He is Taller (Pac Man has to angle his punches upward) - He can take more punches (Pac-man has a glass chin after being put to sleep my Marquiz)
The only advantage Pac Man has is power and being Southpaw. He will have to be aggressive but that leaves him open to counterpunches which is very risky.
All that being said im somewhat bias because i have 1000$ on Mayweather. If they fought 5 years ago I would have bet on Pac-Man.
The bold is just wrong. He's been hit a lot since that fight. Marquez just caught him... anyone can get caught. Not as an excuse for it, but he had a lot of distractions for that fight too. His political career and singing career (awful) were in full swing, and he was looking at going to jail right afterward (or was that the Bradley fight? He beat Bradley in both fights, imo), so who knows how that affected his preparation.
On April 18 2015 07:32 whatisthisasheep wrote: First poster here:
I have limited experience in boxing but I believe Mayweather is heavily favored for several reasons - He movement and footwook are more slick (harder for pac man to hit) - He has a 5 inch reach advantage (easier to defend/counterpunch) - He is Taller (Pac Man has to angle his punches upward) - He can take more punches (Pac-man has a glass chin after being put to sleep my Marquiz)
The only advantage Pac Man has is power and being Southpaw. He will have to be aggressive but that leaves him open to counterpunches which is very risky.
All that being said im somewhat bias because i have 1000$ on Mayweather. If they fought 5 years ago I would have bet on Pac-Man.
The bold is just wrong. He's been hit a lot since that fight. Marquez just caught him... anyone can get caught. Not as an excuse for it, but he had a lot of distractions for that fight too. His political career and singing career (awful) were in full swing, and he was looking at going to jail right afterward (or was that the Bradley fight? He beat Bradley in both fights, imo), so who knows how that affected his preparation.
Bradley is a good boxer but his punching power comes mostly from his upper body. His punches lacked the torque leverage and core strength of mayweathers counters. PAC man wasent in danger of being KOed by Bradley or Algeri. This fight will be different and his previous knock out will be a disadvantage for Manny IMO.
Both fighters are too smart these days to get knocked out - odds are way against it. When you look at the history of their fights neither has a KO'd a guy for some time now. That does not mean that it is impossible...it is just highly improbable.
Mayweather's punches have gotten much softer over the years, the guy wins on perfect defense and countering. Manny's punches have slowed too, if you look at his fights post the Marquez KO, he is boxing a lot smarter; going for points and only occasionally opening up to release the power.
To Mayweather's credit he has been practicing heavily against Judah in prep for this fight, but as any boxer will tell you that has fought Manny, there is no one out there that boxes like Pacquiao - and the same can be said for Mayweather, but the difference is this:
You slip up once against Mayweather he his going to tag you and hurt you. You slip up once against Manny, you are going to hit the canvas.
Khan has announced he is probably going to fight Pacman in Dubai at the end of the year! Pretty huge news that for him and boxing public. Those two are the same fighter just Khan has a vastly weaker chin xD should be an explosive fight that! Two of the quickest punches in the game by a mile!
Can someone PLEASE explain to me the logic in pacqiuao taking a 40-60 split of the winnings?
Apparently he took the deal without much attempted negotiation, if any.
If a fighter (think Floyd) offers to fight another (manny) at 60-40, and only at that split, does that mean he's not as confident in winning the fight?
Or maybe he knew pacquiao wanted the fight really bad and would just take it as it was offered.
boggles my mind. 60-40 seems so unlikely and unfair, especially when you consider a potential 300+ million dollar total payout :D
Mayweather feels entitled to the bigger share of the pot since he sees himself as the better and more marketable fighter. Pacquiao's camp meanwhile just really want the fight so they agreed.
Yeah Mayweather doesn't see himself as just the greatest fighter, but the fighter that brings in the crowd, in fairness he does. Also the 60-40 split is probably bigger than most, but many title fights will have like a 55%+ vs 45% less split purses for the champion and in this case Mayweather is the one putting on the line his 0 record and belts. Pacman is bringing like 1 or 2 belts? Mayweather has several xD
If this fight had happened 5-6 years ago I think I would have picked Manny. His quick, aggro style has fadded in effectiveness over the years, but Mayweather's defensive style hasn't really been affected by his age at all. I think Mayweather dodged the fight for years for this reason.
On May 01 2015 17:49 Brutaxilos wrote: Does anyone know where a college student could watch the match? I've never watched boxing before but kinda am interested in this one.
I heard tickets are $100? Is there any alternative places?
Head to your local bar, might have a cover fee of anywhere from 5-20 dollars. Buffalo Wild Wings should be hosting it, so you can go there. If you have any nearby casinos, you can call and ask if they're showing the fights.
Pretty excited! First good even match for both fighters in years. Just need to find a good venue to watch it. Manny has the tools, although he has had difficulties with defensive fighters before. Go Pacquiao!
Floyd is going to dominate Pacman with his counter punches. One of the best defensive fighters of his time will weather the storm and then win via points.
On May 02 2015 11:05 LastDance wrote: Does anyone know of a live stream for the fight?
don't stream this fight, just set up a party and buy it, this way to big of a fight for a shit stream quality, not to mention there gonna crack down on streams for this fight
On April 23 2015 06:52 whatisthisasheep wrote: Showtimes inside the Mayweather Pac-Man saga was really interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiO6-5Qj4Zs Mayweather isnt trying to hype up the match because the fight sells itsself
Watching this right now, I feel like this series is like 95% about Mayweather and 5% Pacquiao. I'd really like to see more from both parties. But I guess its produced by Mayweather so that'd be expected.
On April 23 2015 06:52 whatisthisasheep wrote: Showtimes inside the Mayweather Pac-Man saga was really interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiO6-5Qj4Zs Mayweather isnt trying to hype up the match because the fight sells itsself
Watching this right now, I feel like this series is like 95% about Mayweather and 5% Pacquiao. I'd really like to see more from both parties. But I guess its produced by Mayweather so that'd be expected.
produced or not by mayweather, it only makes sense. he's the undisputed p4p fighter, the best, the goat, the all time great. I'm a huge pacman fight, but it's like he said in the intro, when people talk about pacquiao, they talking about how good he is in comparison to mayweather, when you talk about mayweather, you talk about the p4p king.
Actually when people talk about Mayweather they talk about how he dodged Pacquiao for all these years and forever tainted what could have been an amazing fight.
The hype is like half of what it woulda been years ago.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh this is sooo huge!!~~~ Yall know Pac going to bring it. And to those haters out there saying Boxing is like Wrestlemania, all staged, put your money where ya mouth is... I got Pac taking this on points.
@Souma,
You are right the hype is half of what it woulda been years ago, but there is not a boxer out there in these guys' weight div that can beat either of them - - That's right...even Marquez wouldn't be able to beat Pac again...
I guess this fight makes me understand how most americans see soccer. I mean really, none of the people I know personally cares and in the german media it's just a major footnote at best, but when I browse the web, the rest of the world seems to have a different opinion.
On May 02 2015 18:31 Mafe wrote: I guess this fight makes me understand how most americans see soccer. I mean really, none of the people I know personally cares and in the german media it's just a major footnote at best, but when I browse the web, the rest of the world seems to have a different opinion.
germany only cares about sport with good german players. so teamsport here is only soccer and handball. for boxing there are some fights ppl care (his management achieved to germanize klitschko).
Sucks but I won't be able to watch it by legal means. I'm not about to pay $100 for this, and I don't have access to the exclusive broadcasting channel in France. I guess I would have been ready to pay about $30, do you know if I can access the fight somewhere by paying at most that? (I can VPN to it). Maybe UK?
One thing i got from the weight in was how focused Floyd was, when asked about questions on the fight he just gave answers, didnt do any baiting or cocky responses or how he is the best. Just said me and father are going to win tomorrow, we are here to fight.
Seems to me he really wants to win this one and i wouldn't be surprised if he is done after the September bout which he is contracted too. Think Manny is literally going to go all guns blazing at Mayweather as well and hope to buzz him and catch him but he will have to be super quick to do so.
On May 02 2015 18:56 75 wrote: germany only cares about sport with good german players...
That's not true. Germany only cares about Heavyweight Boxing! And rightly so.
Flying fists are fun to look at, but not "real" boxing. Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that. Everything below 80 kg is a joke in my eyes (and all the people I know agree).
On May 02 2015 18:56 75 wrote: germany only cares about sport with good german players...
That's not true. Germany only cares about Heavyweight Boxing! And rightly so.
Flying fists are fun to look at, but not "real" boxing. Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that. Everything below 80 kg is a joke in my eyes (and all the people I know agree).
Must admit, it's kinda true. Heavyweight has always been the king weight class. But these 2 are as dominant and skilled as can be in their class, it's still beautiful bexing.
If I was Pacquiao, I'd go out there and drop the biggest shit of a boxing match that I could muster. Refuse to engage, don't fight. Make it the worst thing people have ever watched. Then give a couple of birds to Arum, Floydweather and the whole sport of boxing and take my money back home.
On May 03 2015 02:44 Jerubaal wrote: If I was Pacquiao, I'd go out there and drop the biggest shit of a boxing match that I could muster. Refuse to engage, don't fight. Make it the worst thing people have ever watched. Then give a couple of birds to Arum, Floydweather and the whole sport of boxing and take my money back home.
And be branded the worst wuss in all of boxing? That's an appealing thought. It's one thing to dodge a fight, it's another to run away inside the ring.
Thanks a lot for your stream Mensol, will check it out . Seems like decent quality too.
On May 03 2015 02:44 Jerubaal wrote: If I was Pacquiao, I'd go out there and drop the biggest shit of a boxing match that I could muster. Refuse to engage, don't fight. Make it the worst thing people have ever watched. Then give a couple of birds to Arum, Floydweather and the whole sport of boxing and take my money back home.
And be branded the worst wuss in all of boxing? That's an appealing thought. It's one thing to dodge a fight, it's another to run away inside the ring.
Thanks a lot for your stream Mensol, will check it out . Seems like decent quality too.
On May 03 2015 07:21 Brutaxilos wrote: Does anyone know how long fights (as a whole program) usually last? Fighting itself is only around 40 minutes right?
First fight will start in like 10-15 minutes, then they dont all have 12 rounds, some of the undercard might be 10 rounds some will be 6 or 8. But they do schedule it anyway, the earliest the ring walk can happen for the main event will be 02:45 GMT (+00:00) and i will put money on it Mayweather is going to take atleast 10 minutes to walk to the ring. (or even before starts coming to the ring)
I used to be a floyd supporter since I respect great athletes and thought his confidence/trash talk was fine but man after reading about some of the shit he's done there's no way I can cheer for that kind of filth.
On May 02 2015 18:56 75 wrote: germany only cares about sport with good german players...
That's not true. Germany only cares about Heavyweight Boxing! And rightly so.
Flying fists are fun to look at, but not "real" boxing. Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that. Everything below 80 kg is a joke in my eyes (and all the people I know agree).
Must admit, it's kinda true. Heavyweight has always been the king weight class. But these 2 are as dominant and skilled as can be in their class, it's still beautiful bexing.
I think heavyweight boxing is like Broodwar its past its prime and kinda boring to watch two standing guys throwing hands. lighter weights are more watched by the rest of the world since the early 2000's.
Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that.
Maybe you haven't watched enough boxing. You missed when Pacman KO'd Hatton out cold in a single punch? Marquez also did the same to Pacman just last year, there are countless of 1 punch KO's in lower division, just look it up.
Anyway. getting nervous here for the fight. less than 3 hours!
On May 02 2015 18:56 75 wrote: germany only cares about sport with good german players...
That's not true. Germany only cares about Heavyweight Boxing! And rightly so.
Flying fists are fun to look at, but not "real" boxing. Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that. Everything below 80 kg is a joke in my eyes (and all the people I know agree).
Must admit, it's kinda true. Heavyweight has always been the king weight class. But these 2 are as dominant and skilled as can be in their class, it's still beautiful bexing.
I think heavyweight boxing is like Broodwar its past its prime and kinda boring to watch two standing guys throwing hands. lighter weights are more watched by the rest of the world since the early 2000's.
Boxers have to be able to knock the other down with one single punch to the chin in order to keep the tension and the excitement up. And Welterweights just can not provide that.
Maybe you haven't watched enough boxing. You missed when Pacman KO'd Hatton out cold in a single punch? Marquez also did the same to Pacman just last year, there are countless of 1 punch KO's in lower division, just look it up.
Anyway. getting nervous here for the fight. less than 3 hours!
I think this is the first fight I've head of since Tyson did his shit and I was pretty surprised when I learned that it wasn't heavyweight. Historically these huge fights have always been reserved for heavyweight right? What has changed and why don't heavyweight have it anymore? Or have I just been ignorant to it all.
As an extremely casual boxing fan I hope this was worth staying up for . Im basically riding the hype. Just watched some youtubes of Mayweather and his fighting style looks so unbeatable!
On May 03 2015 02:44 Jerubaal wrote: If I was Pacquiao, I'd go out there and drop the biggest shit of a boxing match that I could muster. Refuse to engage, don't fight. Make it the worst thing people have ever watched. Then give a couple of birds to Arum, Floydweather and the whole sport of boxing and take my money back home.
And be branded the worst wuss in all of boxing? That's an appealing thought. It's one thing to dodge a fight, it's another to run away inside the ring.
Thanks a lot for your stream Mensol, will check it out . Seems like decent quality too.
Anyone want to sig bet on the fight? I'll take Pac-Man but Mayweather has to win by more than 2 rounds? Or I'll take the other side probably. I just prefer to root for Pac.
On May 03 2015 10:53 BadAim wrote: How many undercard fights are there tonight?
5 i think it was in total
Jesse Hart, 16-0 (13KOs) middleweight will fight for the USBA belt vs an undisclosed opponent Vasyl Lomachenko 3-1 (1KO) vs. Gamalier Rodriguez 25-2-3 (17KOs) for WBA Featherweight title Chris Pearson 11-0 (9KOs) vs Said El Harrak 12-2-2 (7KOs) Junior Middleweight contest Leo Santa Cruz 29-0-1 (17KOs) will defend his WBC Super Bantamweight World title vs undisclosed opponent Andrew Tabiti 9-0 (9KOs) vs Anthony Caputo Smith 15-4 (10KOs) Cruiserweight contest 8 rounds.
This what i typed out back when i looked about 2 weeks ago. Thats not in order though thats just when they were released
Featherweight: Leo Santa Cruz vs. Jose Cayetano --
Featherweight Championship: Vasyl Lomachenko vs. Gamalier Rodriguez -- Lomachenko def. Rodriguez by knockout at 0:50 of Round Nine.
Un-Televised Under Card:
154 lbs.: Christopher Pearson vs. Said El Harrak -- Pearson def. El Harrak via unanimous decision 168 lbs.: Jesse Hart vs. Mike Jimenez -- Hart defeats Jimenez via technial knockout in round six 200 lbs.: Andrew Tabiti vs. Anthony Caputo Smith -- Canceled because Smith had high blood pressure 154 lbs.: Brad Solomon vs. Adrian Granados -- Solomon defeats Granados via split decision
45 minutes delay damn. I have one stream up but atdhe is completely down now, can't say I have seen that happen before...probably just so many people looking for streams and overloading them.
On May 03 2015 12:21 75 wrote: first time i see mayweather and pacquiao. first impression: mayweather such a douche and pacquiao so funny.
mayweather was known as pretty-boy as his theme before he changed his theme to 'money mayweather'
mayweather beats women.
mayweather is a wanna-be thug.
that's all you need to know
add on to this list, he's undefeated because he cherry-picks weak opponents who have hardly a chance of beating him except very few exceptions. He waited 5 years to dodge Pacquiao until Pacquio regressed and lost matches to arrange this fight
On May 03 2015 12:21 75 wrote: first time i see mayweather and pacquiao. first impression: mayweather such a douche and pacquiao so funny.
mayweather was known as pretty-boy as his theme before he changed his theme to 'money mayweather'
mayweather beats women.
mayweather is a wanna-be thug.
that's all you need to know
add on to this list, he's undefeated because he cherry-picks weak opponents who have hardly a chance of beating him except very few exceptions. He waited 5 years to dodge Pacquiao until Pacquio regressed and lost matches to arrange this fight
As a complete and total newbie to Boxing and most of my experience in competitive anything comes from esports and football, how does one dodge an opponent in Boxing? Did they never meet in brackets (are there even brackets because it sounds like their aren't) and if so how does it work then?
On May 03 2015 12:21 75 wrote: first time i see mayweather and pacquiao. first impression: mayweather such a douche and pacquiao so funny.
mayweather was known as pretty-boy as his theme before he changed his theme to 'money mayweather'
mayweather beats women.
mayweather is a wanna-be thug.
that's all you need to know
add on to this list, he's undefeated because he cherry-picks weak opponents who have hardly a chance of beating him except very few exceptions. He waited 5 years to dodge Pacquiao until Pacquio regressed and lost matches to arrange this fight
As a complete and total newbie to Boxing and most of my experience in competitive anything comes from esports and football, how does one dodge an opponent in Boxing? Did they never meet in brackets (are there even brackets because it sounds like their aren't) and if so how does it work then?
Dont have to face anyone, all u have to do is fight if you have a title. But u can not fight it and lose the belt that way and fight someone else. Thats what these two have done.
On May 03 2015 12:21 75 wrote: first time i see mayweather and pacquiao. first impression: mayweather such a douche and pacquiao so funny.
mayweather was known as pretty-boy as his theme before he changed his theme to 'money mayweather'
mayweather beats women.
mayweather is a wanna-be thug.
that's all you need to know
add on to this list, he's undefeated because he cherry-picks weak opponents who have hardly a chance of beating him except very few exceptions. He waited 5 years to dodge Pacquiao until Pacquio regressed and lost matches to arrange this fight
Idk about cherry picking because the Pacquiao bodied to get famous, Mayweather either beat them before Pac did (De la Hoya, Hatton, and Mosley) soon after, Cotto (who just got done getting off a 3 winstreak). He beat Marquez who put Pac to sleep 5 fights later. Apparently they were all washed up cans when they fought Floyd but a couple fights before or after when they fought Manny they weren't. wat? I get that you disliked the dude but give credits where it's due. And, while Pac was fighting people like Rios and Algieri Mayweather was fighting Alvarez and Maidana.
Like Manny, most of Floyd's fight since the Hernandez fights were for a title, and whether they were mandatory challengers or big names opponents for money fights, those guys were tough motherfuckers, but no one heard of them now so let's default them into the cherry category. The fuck? People like N'dou, Corrales, Castillo, Corley, Hatton, Chavez, Judah, Alvarez, they weren't washed and they didnt suck when they fought Floyd. A bunch of them came in with their own title and for a lot of them Floyd were handling them their first or second loss.
People are fucking funny lol, Floyd declined one fight and all a sudden all he ever foughts before were random tomato cans.
As much as I'd love to see paquiao win, the only way he can do it is by KO ing maywheather. And that's a super hard thing to do since admittedly, he is a great fighter with a great defense. Its almost impossible for PAC man to win by descision since the box judges are known for their corruption and have protected maywheather and will surely still doing so, just as they did for paquiao some years ago until he was knocked out
On May 03 2015 12:59 [Phantom] wrote: As much as I'd love to see paquiao win, the only way he can do it is by KO ing maywheather. And that's a super hard thing to do since admittedly, he is a great fighter with a great defense. Its almost impossible for PAC man to win by descision since the box judges are known for their corruption and have protected maywheather and will surely still doing so, just as they did for paquiao some years ago until he was knocked out
Seems either a bit gunshotted, or he is having a lot of trouble finding the punch.
What people should know that Manny isn't Maidana or Tyson. He isn't an infighter. People just have that impression because he's always looking small vs the guy he is punching (which gives the impression that he's really really close) while in reality he actually is just smaller, period. He doesn't fight at phone booth distance and he doesn't throw these awkward ass punches like Maidana does. He likes throwing straights at full extension, which is a bit of a problem here because Mayweather's pretty good at controlling that particular range.
can someone explain to me why the judge has to stop them when one of them has the other has like in a lock but both of them arent really hitting each other?
On May 03 2015 13:18 Shock710 wrote: can someone explain to me why the judge has to stop then the other has like in a lock but both of them arent really hitting each other?
Floyd's holding manny's head down when manny is running into the corner or the ropes.
you will notice that whenever floyd's keeping his head down with his hand or elbows, or when they are hugging (clinching), the ref will break them apart because at that position they aren't in a position to punch. It keeps the action going.
On May 03 2015 13:28 DannyJ wrote: My brothers reaction after seeing 3 seconds of this fight
"why am i watching midgets fighting"
Boxing has a problem.
He could go watch klitschko fights and fall asleep.
Why the fuck is watching people in the smaller weigh classes fight a problem lol, is your brother retarded?
Idk I can kinda understand, when I as a casual watcher think of boxing I think of two gigantic people pounding each other. Manny's almost a foot shorter than me. He's not wrong.
Been blind for a few rounds now but the tweets I'm seeing don't sound good for Pac. Floyd really rounding into form as this fight carries on, basically as expected?
The thing is heavy weight fights usually aren't that interesting because they are so slow. Boxing is much more than just hitting each other, you need to be fast, watch how they move the legs. Also even though they may be a foot shorter than you they could beat your or mine ass with one ha d because of all the technique they have. Boxers with more weight sometime have to leave some.of that aside.
On May 03 2015 13:37 [Phantom] wrote: The thing is heavy weight fights usually aren't that interesting because they are so slow. Boxing is much more than just hitting each other, you need to be fast, watch how they move the legs. Also even though they may be a foot shorter than you they could beat your or mine ass with one ha d because of all the technique they have. Boxers with more weight sometime have to leave some.of that aside.
Maybe I just don't have the proper respect for boxing. But, I'm regretting staying up for this. Can't believe how much hype this received. Again, I don't know anything about boxing.
all over for me now unless we get a 10-8 due to pacman looked tired finally, i thought this fight would go, Pacman first few, then rounds 5/6 + Mayweather just doesnt get hit, but seemed to be 6-9 pacman trying and now he seems tired and missing.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
On May 03 2015 13:39 selboN wrote: Maybe I just don't have the proper respect for boxing. But, I'm regretting staying up for this. Can't believe how much hype this received. Again, I don't know anything about boxing.
agree'd, I've never seen boxing before except in Rocky, I was hoping it would be something entertaining like that
On May 03 2015 13:42 Shock710 wrote: i really dont get how those points work? do they start at 10 and everytime they get an unblocked hit they take of a point?
You both start with 10 points. At the end, the guy who wins the round retain 10 points and the other guy gets 9. If there were a knockdown involved from the winning side the loser of that round only gets 8.
On May 03 2015 13:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Being an terrible person who uses a boring lame style and doging the fight until the other dude is too old is rewarded greatly. Evil always wins.
On May 03 2015 13:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Being an terrible person who uses a boring lame style and doging the fight until the other dude is too old is rewarded greatly. Evil always wins.
Floyd is older than Manny so...
I mean I get not liking his 'boring' style, but if Manny is too old, what is Floyd?
redeeming factor, the german boxing legend co commentator is convinced Pacquiao is winning and the lead is trying to tell everyone he's wrong without telling him :d
On May 03 2015 13:39 selboN wrote: Maybe I just don't have the proper respect for boxing. But, I'm regretting staying up for this. Can't believe how much hype this received. Again, I don't know anything about boxing.
agree'd, I've never seen boxing before except in Rocky, I was hoping it would be something entertaining like that
Unlike Rocky people don't block punches with their face in actual boxing lol.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
On May 03 2015 13:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Being an terrible person who uses a boring lame style and doging the fight until the other dude is too old is rewarded greatly. Evil always wins.
Floyd is older than Manny so...
I mean I get not liking his 'boring' style, but if Manny is too old, what is Floyd?
Aggressive styles age faster. Manny's boxing ability ages quicker
On May 03 2015 13:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Being an terrible person who uses a boring lame style and doging the fight until the other dude is too old is rewarded greatly. Evil always wins.
Floyd is older than Manny so...
I mean I get not liking his 'boring' style, but if Manny is too old, what is Floyd?
Well to be fair Manny's style of boxing falls off with age far more than Mayweather's does.
On May 03 2015 13:37 [Phantom] wrote: The thing is heavy weight fights usually aren't that interesting because they are so slow. Boxing is much more than just hitting each other, you need to be fast, watch how they move the legs. Also even though they may be a foot shorter than you they could beat your or mine ass with one ha d because of all the technique they have. Boxers with more weight sometime have to leave some.of that aside.
what about mike tyson?
mike tyson is a once in a lifetime type anomaly. how many heavyweights in the past 60 years fought even remotely close to his style or produced anything close to his results ? none.
how many heavyweights have used the peek-a-boo style in the past 60 years?
and to this guys point ... Tyson was a very small heavyweight fighting at 215-218 in his prime.
This fight was so hyped because these two fighters were the best of the best in recent years (still are), and this fight was going to happen like 5 years ago but Floyd was afraid and made bullshit excuses, fighter with other guys instead and got more titles, but delaying it made it so more and more people wanted to see how they'd do, and so this is the result.
mayweather acting tough and chanting his own name so that he seems more like the winner...granted mayweather might have had more wins in the rounds, but this guy is just the biggest douche i've ever seen
On May 03 2015 13:49 parkufarku wrote: mayweather acting tough and chanting his own name so that he seems more like the winner...granted mayweather might have had more wins in the rounds, but this guy is just the biggest douche i've ever seen
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
Ring generalship only counts when everything else seems dead even lol. When Floyd fights, he's making it very apparent that he's landing more by hitting with such extreme accuracy (even when he doesn't throw that often) and by making it super obvious that his opponent can't touch him.
If you are hitting the other guy and the other guy can't hit you it's hard to judge the fight for the other guy no matter how much he stayed in the center.
On May 03 2015 13:44 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Being an terrible person who uses a boring lame style and doging the fight until the other dude is too old is rewarded greatly. Evil always wins.
Floyd is older than Manny so...
I mean I get not liking his 'boring' style, but if Manny is too old, what is Floyd?
Well to be fair Manny's style of boxing falls off with age far more than Mayweather's does.
I think this is a bit overstated, it's not like Mayweather doesn't need great conditioning to fight like he does. He still throws punches(threw and landed more this fight from what I'm hearing). Pac combos more, but Mayweather moves more in the ring.
On May 03 2015 13:47 zev318 wrote: not sure what kind of fight people who are calling it boring was expecting. it IS floyd fighting after all.
I expected the most hyped fight in my lifetime and one people had wanted for years to be not whatever that was.
but floyd does not fight like that. so why would anyone think he would change how he's been boxing all his life for this one fight?
I barely know anything about boxing except that this fight was supposed to be good and one of the boxers is a serial woman beater. Only one of those ended up being correct.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
Ring generalship only counts when everything else seems dead even lol. When Floyd fights, he's making it very apparent that he's landing more by hitting with such extreme accuracy (even when he doesn't throw that often) and by making it super obvious that his opponent can't touch him.
If you are hitting the other guy and the other guy can't hit you it's hard to judge the fight for the other guy no matter how much he stayed in the center.
Still ain't knocking anyone out while stepping backwards, no matter how over hyped you are.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
Ring generalship only counts when everything else seems dead even lol. When Floyd fights, he's making it very apparent that he's landing more by hitting with such extreme accuracy (even when he doesn't throw that often) and by making it super obvious that his opponent can't touch him.
If you are hitting the other guy and the other guy can't hit you it's hard to judge the fight for the other guy no matter how much he stayed in the center.
Still ain't knocking anyone out while stepping backwards, no matter how over hyped you are.
Ok, people that are into boxing, tell me, when did boxing turn into another fake wrestling iteration? Not only was the sight appalling but there's this cast of people surrounding this, casters, interviewers etc that have been obviously paid to say the things they said. Now they will begin to glorify this "win" that apparently "cements" mayweather as the best of his era.
Oh and he's now 1 more fight till marciano's record, yeiiii!
On May 03 2015 13:52 O-ops wrote: Gotta say tho, I'm still wondering what would happen if this fight happened 4-5 years ago.
Manny would have had a much better chance. He has lost so much speed in the last 5 years. Credit to mayweather though. That's just ridiculous defense. Everytime he'd get chased down to a corner none of the punches would land.
Idk why people are getting so depressed. That was a pretty good fight. Mayweather won first two rounds. Manny came roaring back and had him in trouble (won 4 of the next rounds) and then Mayweather adjusted and never got hit again.
Wtf how did Manny not win? I thought he did better than mayweather 8-4, better ring control, better aggression, better jabs/hooks, the only thing mayweather had was then counters, which wasn't really that good..
On May 03 2015 13:55 Jer99 wrote: Wtf how did Manny not win? I thought he did better than mayweather 8-4, better ring control, better aggression, better jabs/hooks, the only thing mayweather had was then counters, which wasn't really that good..
True... I can't believed he got so many round with simple counter. Technical boxing is too hard to understand. Anyway, is it really legit to hug so many times... I don't seen those as often as in this match.
On May 03 2015 13:55 Jer99 wrote: Wtf how did Manny not win? I thought he did better than mayweather 8-4, better ring control, better aggression, better jabs/hooks, the only thing mayweather had was then counters, which wasn't really that good..
Look at the stats. Manny won rounds 3-6 (so 8-4 for floyd) but everytime he would chase Floyd down he would never hit him and just get hit by counter jabs. Manny landed like 10% of his punches.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
Ring generalship only counts when everything else seems dead even lol. When Floyd fights, he's making it very apparent that he's landing more by hitting with such extreme accuracy (even when he doesn't throw that often) and by making it super obvious that his opponent can't touch him.
If you are hitting the other guy and the other guy can't hit you it's hard to judge the fight for the other guy no matter how much he stayed in the center.
Still ain't knocking anyone out while stepping backwards, no matter how over hyped you are.
So you have to knock people out to win?
Naw you don't. But if i had paid for this i'd be pretty angry that he wasn't even trying.
P.S. Thanks for the nice civil discussion, but i'm done with this thread and with boxing for another 25 years now...lol. Peace good sir.
What I like about technical boxing like this is that you fight to win, you fight smart. Also nice shitting up the thread with posts like that, great going guys.
On May 03 2015 13:38 Stonedviper wrote: I take it that unlike MMA, boxing rewards the guy running backwards more than the guy pushing the action?
What's the use of "pushing it" when you're getting hit more? Those weren't jabs either, Mayweather is hitting him accurately with power shots.
And MMA doesn't reward people for "pushing the action." If that's the case Machida would never have won a fight and Frankie would be winning everything. If you don't hit them or taking them down walking forward doesn't count for jack.
In MMA controlling the center of the ring counts for something. Everyone knows you don't knock anyone out by stepping backwards while throwing punches, but i guess that he's just trying to win on points = boring.
Ring generalship only counts when everything else seems dead even lol. When Floyd fights, he's making it very apparent that he's landing more by hitting with such extreme accuracy (even when he doesn't throw that often) and by making it super obvious that his opponent can't touch him.
If you are hitting the other guy and the other guy can't hit you it's hard to judge the fight for the other guy no matter how much he stayed in the center.
Still ain't knocking anyone out while stepping backwards, no matter how over hyped you are.
So you have to knock people out to win?
Naw you don't. But if i had paid for this i'd be pretty angry that he wasn't even trying.
He was trying. The problem with a technical / defensive style like that is you can't really tell how great his decisions are, because they mostly result in something not happening. Granted Manny isn't as super quick as before, but substitute Mayweather for many other boxers and it wouldn't look like that. They'd be getting rushed down.
It will be interesting to hear how the talk will go now after the match. I imagine that many of them who normally don't watch boxing but paid up because this was supposed to be the shit will be as disappointed as many has been in this thread.
On May 03 2015 13:55 Jer99 wrote: Wtf how did Manny not win? I thought he did better than mayweather 8-4, better ring control, better aggression, better jabs/hooks, the only thing mayweather had was then counters, which wasn't really that good..
I thought the same but I'm not much an avid boxing fan, probably due to these kind of fights. Like, how can a couple counter punches here and there connecting be so much better than a couple of rounds of manny making mayweather cover up and taking a barrage of punches (although, mostly blocked.. but still).
Like, damn, at least there should be some penalty for hugging in this sport lol.
On May 03 2015 14:03 Highways wrote: Boxing is such a boring sport.
Win by running away
UFC all the way boi! Whoever win doesn't matter, both dude are getting big bucks though I hope they don't hype Mayweather as the greatest boxer of all time lol after this.
Well , went as expected , whoever thought this is going to be the ACTUAL fight of the centuary in regards to action never watch Floyd box , it was a big fight because ppl (me included i must admit) thought Pac had what it takes to change that 0 to a 1 , he couldnt , he can say he won the fight in the post fight interview but the fact is he didnt , he got outboxed and thats it.
Yea I want to ask the people who do actually follow boxing; doesn't huggingeventually lead to deduction of points, or did Mayweather space them out properly/do just enough to not get penalized or something?
On May 03 2015 14:03 Highways wrote: Boxing is such a boring sport.
Win by running away
UFC all the way boi! Whoever win doesn't matter, both dude are getting big bucks though I hope they don't hype Mayweather as the greatest boxer of all time lol after this.
I watched UFC fights where they lie on eachother for the entire duration until the fight is over , so relax , there are great boxing fights and there are bad boxing fights.
I'm not a boxing fan either, and also thought that manny was slightly ahead. Gotta admit though that Mayweather had the more precise hits.
Anyway, it was kind of a disappointing fight. That mourinho allegory is very fitting....
What I really can't understand after watching this fight is why the Americans are hating that much on the Klitschkos for "having a boring, cowardly" style. I mean... Mayweather boxes just the same. Maybe slightly more technical while the Klitschkos abuse their physical dominance a bit more, but the defensive, control-oriented style is the same. Yet Americans love Mayweather and despise the Klitschkos...
On May 03 2015 14:03 Highways wrote: Boxing is such a boring sport.
Win by running away
UFC all the way boi! Whoever win doesn't matter, both dude are getting big bucks though I hope they don't hype Mayweather as the greatest boxer of all time lol after this.
I watched UFC fights where they lie on eachother for the entire duration until the fight is over , so relax , there are great boxing fights and there are bad boxing fights.
Atleast we only have to watch that for 15 minutes max.
On May 03 2015 14:08 sung_moon wrote: Yea I want to ask the people who do actually follow boxing; doesn't huggingeventually lead to deduction of points, or did Mayweather space them out properly/do just enough to not get penalized or something?
Yes , but it wasnt that constant of a clinch , if he was any other fighter he might have gotten a point off (not likely but maybe) but it wouldnt have helped in this fight , Pac fought without a good game plan and couldnt close the distance correctly without being countered and shifted to the right , this is boxing an olympic sport there are scoring systems in place , Pac knew he needs a good gameplan to win a point decision and he failed to execute , he was never going to KO floyd nor he was close , i was sad to see it myself , but hell , thats sport.
On May 03 2015 14:10 Black Gun wrote: I'm not a boxing fan either, and also thought that manny was slightly ahead. Gotta admit though that Mayweather had the more precise hits.
Anyway, it was kind of a disappointing fight. That mourinho allegory is very fitting....
What I really can't understand after watching this fight is why the Americans are hating that much on the Klitschkos for "having a boring, cowardly" style. I mean... Mayweather boxes just the same. Maybe slightly more technical while the Klitschkos abuse their physical dominance a bit more, but the defensive, control-oriented style is the same. Yet Americans love Mayweather and despise the Klitschkos...
Not all americans love Mayweather, not all americans hate the Klitschkos.
On May 03 2015 14:10 Black Gun wrote: I'm not a boxing fan either, and also thought that manny was slightly ahead. Gotta admit though that Mayweather had the more precise hits.
Anyway, it was kind of a disappointing fight. That mourinho allegory is very fitting....
What I really can't understand after watching this fight is why the Americans are hating that much on the Klitschkos for "having a boring, cowardly" style. I mean... Mayweather boxes just the same. Maybe slightly more technical while the Klitschkos abuse their physical dominance a bit more, but the defensive, control-oriented style is the same. Yet Americans love Mayweather and despise the Klitschkos...
They are both loved/hated the same i reckon , each has its fans and haters , its easier to root for someone from your own country and the sport is global its the first connection you make to a sport usually , after a while you get to choose your fav`s by actually following the sport. Klitch fight vs jennigs sold out the MSG and was the most watched cable tv show of the last couple of years .
The only way Mayweather wins that is by counting all his tiny jabs onto his opponents gloves and arms, barely in reach, as hits.
Like, that one UK news portal had him marked with like 140-something hits (of 400-something strikes). All my whats. He didn't even strike 150 times total in my books. Apparently moving your arm forward lazily and waving it up and down your opponents glove and arm a bit is now considered 3 strikes each time.
Pacman came for a fistfight, but it was rated as a game of fencing. Pure Robbery.
By those rules it's obvious the guy with longer reach would win every boxing fight by running away and jabbing at max distance without causing any harm. Basicly making the only option for a smaller guy to win a KO.
Was really hoping Manny would win obviously (I'm from the Philippines), but that was a clear Mayweather victory. I really wish Manny conducted his post-fight interview better. No shame in losing, and he lost based on the rules of the sport.
I mean, you can hate Mayweather for his style. That's totally fair. But it's his established style, and everyone knew he'd do it. Manny didn't seem to have a strategy at all to deal with it. To steal a term from card games, what was his win condition? He seemed to think it was just "box better than him" which wasn't going to cut it against an intelligent technical fighter.
I don't know much about boxing but how do you win by running away the entire fight? In wrestling, for example, you get penalized for stalling and not being aggressive. If boxing operated the same way as wrestling Manny would've won 100%.
On May 03 2015 14:50 LittleRedBoy wrote: I don't know much about boxing but how do you win by running away the entire fight? In wrestling, for example, you get penalized for stalling and not being aggressive. If boxing operated the same way as wrestling Manny would've won 100%.
But it doesn't.
I mean come on, we've seen countless SC2 and DotA teams that operate with the same strategy. Shouldn't be all that shocking to anyone. I thought we got over criticizing rat DotA.
Just curious, how many people watched boxing for the first time with this match? I tuned boxing out years ago and didn't bother with this fight because I find the rules, specifically all the clinching, to be boring. Judging by the responses in this thread, it seems many first time watchers fell for the hype.
people who thought mayweather ran, have no idea how boxing works.
pac lost because he couldn't open with a left body straight into a lead right hook because his lead right foot never got the open path around mayweather lead left foot.
On May 03 2015 14:58 andrewlt wrote: Just curious, how many people watched boxing for the first time with this match? I tuned boxing out years ago and didn't bother with this fight because I find the rules, specifically all the clinching, to be boring. Judging by the responses in this thread, it seems many first time watchers fell for the hype.
Most of the hype came from the huge purse than actual hype over skill or the entertainment factor. Same with most sports really that have massive spectacles like the World Cup or Super Bowl. People expect some amazingly entertaining bout when most sports are honestly boring with some bursts of energy. It's all marketing and money that propels people to watch them.
On May 03 2015 14:58 andrewlt wrote: Just curious, how many people watched boxing for the first time with this match? I tuned boxing out years ago and didn't bother with this fight because I find the rules, specifically all the clinching, to be boring. Judging by the responses in this thread, it seems many first time watchers fell for the hype.
i used to watch a lot of boxing a long time ago. but, not much in the past 5 years. so nowadays, i don't know much. But, i do know who to listen to.. and Marc Ratner nailed it. i was not surprised by how this fight went, mainly because i listened carefully to Ratner's analysis before the fight.
the fight was a bit of a sleeper and i was kind of expecting that.
Floyd running from PAC man for all these years paid off...literally! Just collected my 1750$ for betting 1000$ on him 2 months ago Now i have to think off what gaudy obnoxious trinket should I waste this money on.
On May 03 2015 14:36 Jibba wrote: I mean, you can hate Mayweather for his style. That's totally fair. But it's his established style, and everyone knew he'd do it. Manny didn't seem to have a strategy at all to deal with it. To steal a term from card games, what was his win condition? He seemed to think it was just "box better than him" which wasn't going to cut it against an intelligent technical fighter.
I mean, it's like the saying of don't hate the player, hate the game. A lot of people came to watch the fight but was left disappointed. I'm one of those that was intrigued of the hype and knew of the two for a long time but not much of a boxing fan. If boxing allows you to hug without penalty and allows a couple "harmless" connecting jabs here and there rule the outcome of huge boxing match, then it's going to seem like such an underwhelming sport for a lot of people.
No one seemed "hurt" and no one seemed outclassing the other. If this was like olympic boxing I'd be okay with this "style" of boxing. Beating your opponent by not trying to really "beat" your opponent just seems ridiculous. But I'm sure some avid boxing fans love their sport to be like this.
When a casual, like myself, watches this, I see times when Manny actually threatened Mayweather. Like the time Mayweather had to clam up and take the barrage of punches (although, mostly blocked). I never once saw a time Mayweather actually threatened Pac. Also, when I see Mayweather hold onto Pacman, it just seems to be very defensive and get out of trouble kind of move. Like he got beat out of a favorable position and he has to reset the fight. Much like in American football, a player may resort to holding because they got beat out of position but it's at least a penalized act.
On May 03 2015 14:36 Jibba wrote: I mean, you can hate Mayweather for his style. That's totally fair. But it's his established style, and everyone knew he'd do it. Manny didn't seem to have a strategy at all to deal with it. To steal a term from card games, what was his win condition? He seemed to think it was just "box better than him" which wasn't going to cut it against an intelligent technical fighter.
I mean, it's like the saying of don't hate the player, hate the game. A lot of people came to watch the fight but was left disappointed. I'm one of those that was intrigued of the hype and knew of the two for a long time but not much of a boxing fan. If boxing allows you to hug without penalty and allows a couple "harmless" connecting jabs here and there rule the outcome of huge boxing match, then it's going to seem like such an underwhelming sport for a lot of people.
No one seemed "hurt" and no one seemed outclassing the other. If this was like olympic boxing I'd be okay with this "style" of boxing. Beating your opponent by not trying to really "beat" your opponent just seems ridiculous. But I'm sure some avid boxing fans love their sport to be like this.
When a casual, like myself, watches this, I see times when Manny actually threatened Mayweather. Like the time Mayweather had to clam up and take the barrage of punches (although, mostly blocked). I never once saw a time Mayweather actually threatened Pac. Also, when I see Mayweather hold onto Pacman, it just seems to be very defensive and get out of trouble kind of move. Like he got beat out of a favorable position and he has to reset the fight. Much like in American football, a player may resort to holding because they got beat out of position but it's at least a penalized act.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
pretty much, manny really needed to work on his clinch offense, work on pummeling out the underhook of mayweather.. mayweather's clinch is really fucking good.
Manny needed to throw twice as many punches as he did imo. Their totals by the end were within <10 punches I think and that obviously favors Mayweather. Problem for manny is he couldn't get in, Mayweather's punishes way too strong.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot harder than pacman ever will.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
it worked... and that's the bottom line... plus how many times did foreman actually connect on Ali's face? the point of the rope-a-dope is to protect ur head at all costs... Ali took a lot of body shots... Peek-A-Boo works the same way.. it may be weird but it has its uses.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
it worked... and that's the bottom line.
and clinching worked a fuckton more, the only notable usage from ali was fucking rumble in the jungle
also ropeadope usually used to sacrifice rounds to rest, so you guys are bitching about clinching, rope adope would have been 10x more stupid and boring.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
it worked... and that's the bottom line.
and clinching worked a fuckton more, the only notable usage from ali was fucking rumble in the jungle
the Peek-A-Boo style works the same way. u protect ur head at all costs... its an unusual style but depending on your body type and the body type of your opponent it can be useful.
and writing off a certain style as completely useless can lead to a shocking outcome.
no slipping, no bobbing.. no energy required in defending.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
it worked... and that's the bottom line.
and clinching worked a fuckton more, the only notable usage from ali was fucking rumble in the jungle
the Peek-A-Boo style works the same way. u protect ur head at all costs... its an unusual style but depending on your body type and the body type of your opponent it can be useful.
and writing off a certain style as completely useless can lead to a shocking outcome.
rope a dope isn't a fucking style. jesus christ. i don't know why you're even trying to commentate on boxing, when you clearly have no knowledge about striking or clinching.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
it worked... and that's the bottom line.
and clinching worked a fuckton more, the only notable usage from ali was fucking rumble in the jungle
the Peek-A-Boo style works the same way. u protect ur head at all costs... its an unusual style but depending on your body type and the body type of your opponent it can be useful.
and writing off a certain style as completely useless can lead to a shocking outcome.
rope a dope isn't a fucking style. jesus christ. i don't know why you're even trying to commentate on boxing, when you clearly have no knowledge about striking or clinching.
ali's rope-a-dope in that fight was a variation of the peek a boo style
here @1:45 - "ali used the peek-a-boo stance when he fought foreman" @1:22 - "basically every boxer uses the peek-a-boo stance at some point when they are hurt"
it is a perfect style for a certain specific body types.
Mike Tyson's stance is a very very defensive...which is a big misconception that most people have.
getting back to the original point, you don't have to clinch all the time... falling back into a peek-a-boo stance is a perfectly valid form of defense.
or even using this stance as your primary stance is fine as well. although it is ultra defensive.. u can generate offense from it.
Tyson would shuffle right into guys in that stance. damn.. in the Spinks fight he jogged into him using that stance.
On April 17 2015 17:18 Pandemona wrote: Mayweather will win he always finds a way, will be the best fight on my generation and i was 9 when Lenox fought Tyson, this will be even bigger.
Pacman seems very hungry for this fight though there is no question, but unless he gets his left hand working he isn't going to trouble Floyd. I see Floyd making this a defensive masterclass for 6 rounds, before he starts clinching his way through the latter rounds.
Im intrigued with the undercard as well, im sure there are going be some great fights on that.
On May 03 2015 16:27 shin_toss wrote: this is like GSL finals =_= .. disappointing. I wonder why Pac did not take those 2 first rounds like he usually do.
In the first round he kind of just ran at Money and got hit pretty good. Then he took a bit of a break to figure out what he's going to do, until like mid/end round 3.
Yeah, me too. Was hoping for Pac to win because of his story, but Mayweather seemed like such a badass in general I didn't mind him winning. He kind of reminded me of Mech terran vs. Z...just an impossible style to win against in the hands of a good enough player.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
one other inaccuracy i should correct here
the temperature in that fight started at 80F or 26C and as the night wore on the temperature fell because the sun went down. no idea where you came up with 110F.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
one other inaccuracy i should correct here
the temperature in that fight started at 80F or 26C and as the night wore on the temperature fell because the sun went down. no idea where you came up with 110F.
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot hard than pacman ever will.
rope-a-dope is fucking stupid, yeah if you've got a chin like ali go for it, and you've got the stamina to fight in 110 degree african jungle weather
one other inaccuracy i should correct here
the temperature in that fight started at 80F or 26C and as the night wore on the temperature fell because the sun went down. no idea where you came up with 110F.
cmon man, dont be silly, humidity has almost no impact below 85F
so that 80F and 80% humidity... gives u something like a "feeling" that it is 84F and 80% humidity isn't common. 100% humidity means it raining.
so in no way was it any where near 110F during the fight.
and did the fight actually happen in an african jungle? or was it in a city in africa? i guess by calling it "african jungle weather" as you have said.. it makes it sound hotter.
bottom line is ..it was 80F and falling .. just like it does whenever the sun goes down any where including africa.
and the Peek-A-Boo stance works fine indoors in perfect conditions whenever any fighter gets in trouble. you do not always have to clinch.
Mayweather used it in short spurts tonight as well... its always a solid option.
lol, who the fuck said peek a boo doesn't work? I just said if you rely on ropeadope, you're bound to lose the fight. It's best used as a rest technique to give up a round, after winning several in a row. But as primary strategy it's not really shown to be that useful outside of rumble in the jungle.
On May 03 2015 17:59 wei2coolman wrote: lol, who the fuck said peek a boo doesn't work? I just said if you rely on ropeadope, you're bound to lose the fight. It's best used as a rest technique to give up a round, after winning several in a row. But as primary strategy it's not really shown to be that useful outside of rumble in the jungle.
It was used by Ali more than just in the Rumble in the Jungle.
Ali used it in several fights including teh Thrilla In Manila versus Frazier... its all well documented. Also, James Toney has used it to win the Cruiserweight title. and in 2001 Mayweather used a slight variation of it...again its well documented.
basically, u assume a stance close to the Peek-A-Boo when pinned against teh ropes... that's the rope-a-dope.
i've already posted the video. in response to all this even including time stamps. you just blurt out stuff and expect it to be taken as gospel while half reading stuff.
sry man, it was not 110F and the peek-a-boo and rope-a-dope are variations on the same style as noted in the video i posted with timestamps...and u just kept pumping out half ass rebuttals with no references, no nothing.
if u don't want to read my stuff or examine my references that is fine. your "facts" are not facts.
I just think the clinching is really bad for the sport from a spectator pov. Like it took Paquiao so much effort to drive him in a corner due to Floyd's extreme agility. He kept working and working and when he finally got him in the corner to accept some punches Floyd just used a grab as a get-out-of-jail free card.
I think the way Mayweather can dodge/glance punches is pretty sick though. He won through skill though it made it pretty boring.
There was a reason most people haven't been interested in boxing for a long time. It really feels like the people running the sport are just milking it for all it's worth rather than proactively trying to make it better.
The problem with boxing is no one really wants it to get popular anyway, no one wants their kid to be a boxer considering all the head trauma it's going to cause. I think if they did want to grow the sport more the best thing that could happen would be after Mayweather retires he gets behind rule changes aimed at making the sport more exciting.
At this point though as has been said a million times, boxing has probably already declined way too much to ever beat out UFC.
Because let's expect a super featherweight to move up 17+ pounds and keep knocking out natural welterweights/super welterweights with tested chins.
The only reason why ppl called Floyd out on knockouts was because Manny were doing it, but most of Manny's knockout were in the super featherweight and below. His welterweight knockouts came from Hatton (who Floyd also knocked out), a catchweight Cotto, and a welterweight De la Hoya, who has been fighting at light middleweight for a good 9 fights already. While Floyd didn't knock people out as often at Manny, he, too, was aggressive and got his fair share of stoppages. Manny hasn't stopped anyone since '09. He couldn't stop Rios, and that guy is not even a real welterweight. So why is it people are complaining about Floyd not getting stoppages when he's fighting guys like Maidana and Canelo?
But hey, since apparently satisfying the casuals and going for high risk knockouts keep boxing "alive," let's keep expecting Floyd to go out and make people happy. Pacquiao did it that one time recently and it turned out pretty good for him.
That confirms why I never watch boxing, even though it's a great sport. It may be great tactically and stuff, but how can a sport give wins to people who run away the entire time? I'll go back to watching the inferior K1/UFC and enjoy some knockouts.
On May 03 2015 21:32 O-ops wrote: Because let's expect a super featherweight to move up 17+ pounds and keep knocking out natural welterweights/super welterweights with tested chins.
On May 03 2015 23:30 aseq wrote: That confirms why I never watch boxing, even though it's a great sport. It may be great tactically and stuff, but how can a sport give wins to people who run away the entire time? I'll go back to watching the inferior K1/UFC and enjoy some knockouts.
It's a strategy called defense and defense won. There's a reason why he's still undefeated.
On May 03 2015 23:30 aseq wrote: That confirms why I never watch boxing, even though it's a great sport. It may be great tactically and stuff, but how can a sport give wins to people who run away the entire time? I'll go back to watching the inferior K1/UFC and enjoy some knockouts.
It's a strategy called defense and defense won. There's a reason why he's still undefeated.
Defense wins championships but have you ever watched a defensive artist and been like wow that was a great show? Nope
On May 03 2015 23:30 aseq wrote: That confirms why I never watch boxing, even though it's a great sport. It may be great tactically and stuff, but how can a sport give wins to people who run away the entire time? I'll go back to watching the inferior K1/UFC and enjoy some knockouts.
It's a strategy called defense and defense won. There's a reason why he's still undefeated.
Defense wins championships but have you ever watched a defensive artist and been like wow that was a great show? Nope
Offense sells ticket
yeah, that's why Mayweather is the highest paid athlete in the world, cuz defense doesn't sell tickets.
On May 04 2015 03:23 sotaporo wrote: absolutely hilarious that event like this will make 100's of millions in profit. people who paid to watch that must feel robbed.
the santacruz fight was pretty good imo, even if it was onesided as hell.
I'm just sad pacman wasn't able to establish the left body jab into right lead hook that entire fight... Like I said though, pacman really needed to throw around mayweather's guard when he got him against the cornor, should have studied ggg's punching motions.
On May 03 2015 17:59 wei2coolman wrote: lol, who the fuck said peek a boo doesn't work? I just said if you rely on ropeadope, you're bound to lose the fight. It's best used as a rest technique to give up a round, after winning several in a row. But as primary strategy it's not really shown to be that useful outside of rumble in the jungle.
It was used by Ali more than just in the Rumble in the Jungle.
Ali used it in several fights including teh Thrilla In Manila versus Frazier... its all well documented. Also, James Toney has used it to win the Cruiserweight title. and in 2001 Mayweather used a slight variation of it...again its well documented.
basically, u assume a stance close to the Peek-A-Boo when pinned against teh ropes... that's the rope-a-dope.
i've already posted the video. in response to all this even including time stamps. you just blurt out stuff and expect it to be taken as gospel while half reading stuff.
sry man, it was not 110F and the peek-a-boo and rope-a-dope are variations on the same style as noted in the video i posted with timestamps...and u just kept pumping out half ass rebuttals with no references, no nothing.
if u don't want to read my stuff or examine my references that is fine. your "facts" are not facts.
the fact that you don't think 90% humidity doesn't affect a outside boxing fight at 80 degrees farhenheit is already proof that you lack the experience and knowledge of how big of an impact environmental conditions are to high performance endurance athletes.
and again, you reference the Manila fight, of which, was another scorching hot day
"'At 10 AM the stickiness of the night was still there, but cooked by the sun. So what you got is boiling water for atmosphere."[9] Denise Menz, who was part of Frazier's contingent, said of the conditions inside the aluminum roofed Araneta Coliseum: "It was so intensely hot, I've never before felt heat like that in my life. Not a breath of air—nothing. And that was sitting there. Can you imagine being in the ring? I don't know how they did it." Frazier estimated the ring temperature at more than 120 °F (49 °C), taking into account the effect of additional lights used for purposes of televising the fight.[12] Ali would later say that he had lost 5 pounds (2.3 kg) that morning due to severe dehydration caused by the conditions.[13]
Of which, I said "ropeadope works if you got a chin like ali, and got the stamina to fight at 110 degree weather".
And jesus christ, if you're trying to compare the peek-a-boo stance tyson uses to using it in a ropeadope, or just using it to cover up when hurt, it's just proof that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Don't know why you're praising Ali, when all he is a heavier better chinned mayweather.
i've already outlined how humidity doesn't change things much when the temperature is under 85F furthermore, you never said 110F once humidity is included.. u just flat out said 110F
and ... if u can't tell the huge difference between 110F and 80F then i don't know what else to say.
the rope-a-dope was not just used 1 time only in an usual circumstance.
i'm not outlining every fight he used it in.. the documentation is all out there.. and anyone who wants to do some digging and watch some Ali fights will see he used it throughout the 1970s.
your facts are just wrong. and personal attacks do not replace your incorrect claims. you have nothing to stand on but argument ad hominem.
the rope-a-dope is an infrequently strategy to be sure. but to say its never been successful is incorrect.
at a basic level .. its the peek-a-boo stance against the ropes. and mayweather, ali, and toney all have slight variations on it... and they've all won with it. .. it is a strategic option.
On May 04 2015 04:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: guy, u said it was 110 degrees and it was 30 degrees lower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rumble_in_the_Jungle and the temperature was FALLING because the sun went down.
i've already outlines how humidity doesn't change things much when the temperature is under 85F
the rope-a-dope was not just used 1 time only in an usual circumstance.
your facts are just wrong. and personal attacks do not replace your incorrect claims. you have nothing to stand on but argument ad hominem.
the rope-a-dope is an infrequently strategy to be sure. but to say its never been successful is incorrect.
at a basic level .. its the peek-a-boo stance against the ropes. and mayweather, ali, and toney all have slight variations on it.
the use of it as an overall fight strategy is VERY FUCKING DIFFERENT than using it as a round by round technique to recover.
go run for 1 hour at 85 degree and 90% humidity, and tell me that doesn't feel like 110.
and thrilla in manila, was even HOTTER. lol.
like I said, it works for ali, cuz it's ali. It works for mayweather, because he uses it as a round by round recovery technique, every single round he took a flurry from pacquiao, even tho pac didn't hit anything vital, he lost those rounds, despite covering up and hovering the rope decently.
every round mayweather clinched the flurry, he won those rounds. clinching is a good boxing strategy, and mayweather is a god at it.
it was less than 80 by round 4 because of the setting sun..so why even talk about 85F? you can stretch it and twist it and turn it all you want... it was not 110F... it was 30+ degrees lower.
On May 04 2015 04:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it was less than 80 by round 4 because of the setting sun..so why even talk about 85F? you can stretch it and twist it and turn it all you want... it was not 110F... it was 30+ degrees lower.
I hope you know ring temperature is different than the arena temperature, due to lights. Also, it should be pretty obvious by now I was being slightly hyperbolic, and more talking about heat index than actual temperature. Like I said, go run an hour at 80 degree weather with massive high powered lights shining on you, with 90% humidity, and tell me it doesn't feel like 110 degrees.
sigh, they were using stadium lights not arena lights. i see guys at ringside wearing sweaters looking perfectly comfortable. i see an obese referee actively jockeying about the entire 8 rounds and not sweating.
i see no comments at all from Ali or Foreman about how temperature impacted the rumble. Conversely, the temperature for the thrilla with Frazier is discussed as a major theme of the fight.
if it walks like a duck. quacks like a duck. and looks like a duck. its a duck. the temperature was not a factor. the average temperature in Kinshasa, Zaire in late October is 80F and it falls at night to 70F on average.
regarding the rope-a-dope:
all i ever said in my original comment is that it was an option ... here it is....
On May 03 2015 15:27 whatisthisasheep wrote: If someone was throwing a flurry of punches at your face wouldn't you rather put them in a headlock then be pummeled into oblivion?
not always.. ever heard of the rope-a-dope? Ali used it against guys who hit a lot harder than pacman ever will.
please note the wordsnot always at the beginning of my comment.
"not always" does not equal use it every time, all the time, no matter what. within the context of this Q&A i'm referring to it as possible strategic option and not the foundation upon which Ali fought in the 1970s.
however, for a handful of fights he really did rely on it a fuck-tonne. furthermore, u didn't say Ali used it in 2 fights. u said it was used once and once only in the rumble in the jungle.
I came back to watch boxing again after more than 10 years, and I am really dissapointed, we were 4 people, and all of us ended the last 5 rounds talking about other stuff, drinking some Vodka, having good laughs, and with the TV turned on the background like a ghost.
Thems the rules, out boxing is legit as long as the rules allow it. I don't watch boxing because of it but it's up to the athletes to use and exploit what tools they have.
On May 04 2015 06:41 Serpest wrote: So who do you think can defeat - let alone KO - Mayweather?
No one in welterweight or super welterweight can touch Mayweather, at least in the next fight. Amir Khan can give him a good fight and Kell Brook can make it a profitable show, but unless Floyd moves up 2 full weight classes and fight GGG he won't lose.
I felt that when Mayweather was in trouble and turtled that Manny should've just unleased hell but he kinda let up. Maybe he just didn't want to leave himself vulnerable to a knockout punch like in his last fight with JMMarquez.
I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
On May 04 2015 07:19 polgas wrote: I felt that when Mayweather was in trouble and turtled that Manny should've just unleased hell but he kinda let up. Maybe he just didn't want to leave himself vulnerable to a knockout punch like in his last fight with JMMarquez.
There are reports Pac fought injured and didn't get the anti-inflammatory shot before the fight. I haven't looked into them though.
On May 04 2015 08:34 zev318 wrote: so why is clinching even allowed in boxing? doesnt it prevent the actual boxing that's supposed to happen?
Clinching just naturally happens the problem is the abuse of it in the sport. Even 2 guys who have the intention of striking with their fists, clinches tend to happen, thus making it hard to have fast and hard rules regarding clinches.
On May 04 2015 08:34 zev318 wrote: so why is clinching even allowed in boxing? doesnt it prevent the actual boxing that's supposed to happen?
Clinching just naturally happens the problem is the abuse of it in the sport. Even 2 guys who have the intention of striking with their fists, clinches tend to happen, thus making it hard to have fast and hard rules regarding clinches.
If they were harsher for fighters who incorporate techniques that are against the rules Mayweathers style wouldn't be nearly as effective.
It's like in MMA if a ref said several times per round 'stop grabbing the fence' Ok it happens, it's natural to reach out and grab at stuff and such, but after the 4th 5th 6th time? If refs were taking points away it would change his style a lot. Not to mention if a fighter had fight after fight where you could see them intentionally (or unintentionally) violating the same rule or spirit of a rule it would be a bigger deal. That's my biggest problem with boxing.
It constantly goes on about being a science or art or whatever and how big a role skill plays, but the best champ relies heavily on a style where he intentionally violates the rules or at least their spirit. Start docking fighters more and I bet you immediately get more fans. Keep letting them get away with holding and headlocks every time they get in trouble and boxing will keep losing fans.
I mean excessive clinching is punishable by point deductions at ref's discretion, which is problematic when mayweather got to choose the ref for this 'fight'
i think it should be ringside who deducts points, and it should be much more frequent. something like whoever initiates clinching the most should lose a point every round
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
lol there is a recording of the fight on facebook with 20 million plus views. The video itself make me laugh but the memes are frikkin hilarious. The "Heat map" and the one with the Britney spears lyrics are too funny.
Mayweather hugging all the time, he get no point deduction, right?
Because there is no way Mayweather won that fight by boxing. There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system when the guy running away and hugging wins by unanimous decision. I respect that he had a defensive style but this was nothing else than ridiculous that he won.
Note, I'm not saying the match is fixed or anything but the scoring is so wrong when watching that fight and Mayweather is the winner.
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
You guys are delusional. Or are watching boxing for the first time.
On May 04 2015 14:33 papaz wrote: As a casual fan I don't get the scoring at all.
Mayweather hugging all the time, he get no point deduction, right?
Because there is no way Mayweather won that fight by boxing. There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system when the guy running away and hugging wins by unanimous decision. I respect that he had a defensive style but this was nothing else than ridiculous that he won.
Note, I'm not saying the match is fixed or anything but the scoring is so wrong when watching that fight and Mayweather is the winner.
Jesus, just look at punches thrown and landed. Mayweather simply hit more, and more accurately.
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
exploiting strengths is exactly how sports works...
On May 04 2015 14:33 papaz wrote: As a casual fan I don't get the scoring at all.
Mayweather hugging all the time, he get no point deduction, right?
Because there is no way Mayweather won that fight by boxing. There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system when the guy running away and hugging wins by unanimous decision. I respect that he had a defensive style but this was nothing else than ridiculous that he won.
Note, I'm not saying the match is fixed or anything but the scoring is so wrong when watching that fight and Mayweather is the winner.
Jesus, just look at punches thrown and landed. Mayweather simply hit more, and more accurately.
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
exploiting strengths is exactly how sports works...
Yeah I agree on the reach and running. Those are legit (although I'm not a particular fan of that style). The clinching is an advantage gained by gaming the system rather than skill so I don't like that. Maybe he wins without it or with deductions but no one can deny we would of gotten a better fight if the headlocks and clinching cost Mayweather points.
he didnt even abuse clinching other than stopping pacman. abusing clinching is when you know you're in deep shit/tired and just wants to hold on, this wasnt that. i was hopping pacman can be the one to get through money's defense but as always, mayweather's defense is impeccable. this was no different than mayweather's other fights.
maybe its pacquaio's age but i expected him to overwhelm mayweather with aggressiveness but he didnt. either he knew he couldnt get through his defense and risk a devastating counter or manny was not like he was half a decade ago. mayweather's fighting style can get better with age, but aggressiveness can take a toll on aging boxer.
either way, they got paid BANK. maybe that played a role in their motivation; exhibition, sparring and get paid shitload.
On May 04 2015 14:33 papaz wrote: As a casual fan I don't get the scoring at all.
Mayweather hugging all the time, he get no point deduction, right?
Because there is no way Mayweather won that fight by boxing. There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system when the guy running away and hugging wins by unanimous decision. I respect that he had a defensive style but this was nothing else than ridiculous that he won.
Note, I'm not saying the match is fixed or anything but the scoring is so wrong when watching that fight and Mayweather is the winner.
and this is counting pacman's glancing blows as landed punches. he didn't land many solid punches at all. floyd went easy on him
quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
absolutely genius considering mayweather is undefeated. you want boxers to just stand in the corner while getting punched in the face and not protecting themselves? but sure hates gonna hate.
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
On May 04 2015 14:33 papaz wrote: As a casual fan I don't get the scoring at all.
Mayweather hugging all the time, he get no point deduction, right?
Because there is no way Mayweather won that fight by boxing. There is something seriously wrong with the scoring system when the guy running away and hugging wins by unanimous decision. I respect that he had a defensive style but this was nothing else than ridiculous that he won.
Note, I'm not saying the match is fixed or anything but the scoring is so wrong when watching that fight and Mayweather is the winner.
and this is counting pacman's glancing blows as landed punches. he didn't land many solid punches at all. floyd went easy on him
exactly, Manny got clowned hard. Personally I think the arm thing is just a nice excuse that sets the stage for another nine figure payday. Manny was lifting up his arms a-ok after the fight, which would hurt like a bitch if he tore his rotator cuff. He tried fighting Mayweather just like everyone else has, and had predictable results.
I mean I expected Mayweather to win if it went to a decision (which was most likely) but I didn't expect him to basically dominate the match in the way he was. The dude's a piece of shit but goddamn can he dodge punches and play defense well. But Pac looked like ass too.
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
it is funny listening to people spout off about a boxer when they watch less boxing in a year than guys like Kevin Iole watch in a week.
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
absolutely genius considering mayweather is undefeated. you want boxers to just stand in the corner while getting punched in the face and not protecting themselves? but sure hates gonna hate.
No, I want them to FIGHT back! Is that so mind blowing?
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
absolutely genius considering mayweather is undefeated. you want boxers to just stand in the corner while getting punched in the face and not protecting themselves? but sure hates gonna hate.
No, I want them to FIGHT back! Is that so mind blowing?
its caveat emptor man. vote with your wallet. earlier i said floyd's been doing this for years.. i was wrong.. he's been doing this for decades. floyd has gotta be worth hundreds of millions of dollars and he ain't changin'
On May 04 2015 07:20 ZenithM wrote: I actually like watching Mayweather's defense. He's really a genius at it, no doubt. So much ability is poured in that defense, you just have to appreciate it.
There is absolutely nothing genius about exploiting reach advantage, running and clinching.
absolutely genius considering mayweather is undefeated. you want boxers to just stand in the corner while getting punched in the face and not protecting themselves? but sure hates gonna hate.
No, I want them to FIGHT back! Is that so mind blowing?
its caveat emptor man. vote with your wallet. earlier i said floyd's been doing this for years.. i was wrong.. he's been doing this for decades. floyd has gotta be worth hundreds of millions of dollars and he ain't changin'
So many people attacking Mayweather and defending Pacquiao. Really silly IMO.
I don't like Mayweather, but he's one of the greatest boxers of all time (maybe even best ever, who knows). He did not run away from the Pacquiao, he outclassed him and positioned himself correctly for the win. Only an idiot would stand still while another dude is trying to punch you in the face.
Also, please stop feeling bad for Pacquiao. He walks away from this fight with good health, millions of fans, and 100 million dollars. I'm sure he is doing fine.
I won't stop laughing if Holyfield vs Romney turns out to be a more entertaining fight (for the lay fan anyway). With those geriatrics in the ring at least there won't be much running ;P
I wonder what people at lower levels of boxing would say about Mayweather. His style needs a certain requirement of respect from the referee and judges. I wouldn't be surprised if at lower, especially amateur, someone fighting like him wouldn't get cold treatment.
In Tae Kwon Do, if you start trying to clinch too much, the referee gives you a few warnings and then starts deducting points.
Turns out those reports about fighting injured were true. Also explains the lower volume a bit.
Pacquiao's camp had considered postponing the fight, but instead elected to go forward on the scheduled date after the Nevada Athletic Commission approved the use of numbing agent injections. However, Pacquiao was denied permission the night of the fight.
On May 05 2015 11:43 Jerubaal wrote: I wonder what people at lower levels of boxing would say about Mayweather. His style needs a certain requirement of respect from the referee and judges. I wouldn't be surprised if at lower, especially amateur, someone fighting like him wouldn't get cold treatment.
In Tae Kwon Do, if you start trying to clinch too much, the referee gives you a few warnings and then starts deducting points.
I've been in amateur events with some real dumbass refs that give people warnings for every little thing lol.
Well, the fight happened just as I predicted! Won a few hundred off it. All these sheep crying about the fight when they never watched a boxing match before, let alone a Floyd fight, wth were they expecting lmao. All this kinda remembers me of all the hate that flash use to get for his play style, fully defensive but tactically masterful. Like they say don't hate the player, hate the game; players do what they can to win within the laws of the game. Essentially, Floyd parked the bus.
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
it is funny listening to people spout off about a boxer when they watch less boxing in a year than guys like Kevin Iole watch in a week.
The problem is that boxing is a deader than SC2 because it's so.... offensive to casuals. For casuals this fight is supposed to be best boxing has to offer, and it blew chunks, though it played out exactly like anyone who is semi knowledgeable would expect it to. At end the day, a bunch people around 2 dudes made a ton of money, everyone else goes back to (maybe even more so) dgaf about boxing, and that's a shame.
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
it is funny listening to people spout off about a boxer when they watch less boxing in a year than guys like Kevin Iole watch in a week.
The problem is that boxing is a deader than SC2 because it's so.... offensive to casuals. For casuals this fight is supposed to be best boxing has to offer, and it blew chunks, though it played out exactly like anyone who is semi knowledgeable would expect it to. At end the day, a bunch people around 2 dudes made a ton of money, everyone else goes back to (maybe even more so) dgaf about boxing, and that's a shame.
Well I made alot of Money betting on Mayweather UD so Im not complaining either. Look it was a payday fight, Manny doesnt matchup well against him at all. Everyone who's ever seen their fights would know that.
Granted Manny didnt use many angles and he didnt take enough risks, to hurt Mayweather but I get why. Hes older, his high energy style doesnt age well like Mayweathers either.
He got his payday. Hes still the fan favourite. Hes happy with that. Floyd gets to stay undefeated.
As for Floyd, what he does is not easy, but he is a scorecard boxer and scorecard boxers kill the sport because the real way sports grow is to get casuals involved and interested. And if you cant excite people you cant get them interested. Not Mayweathers problem sure, but thats how it is.
Sure im a discenring watcher now, but if it wasny for Mike Tyson and De La Hoya types I wouldnt have given two shits about it as a kid.
On May 05 2015 09:36 Wangsta wrote: So many people attacking Mayweather and defending Pacquiao. Really silly IMO.
I don't like Mayweather, but he's one of the greatest boxers of all time (maybe even best ever, who knows). He did not run away from the Pacquiao, he outclassed him and positioned himself correctly for the win. Only an idiot would stand still while another dude is trying to punch you in the face.
Also, please stop feeling bad for Pacquiao. He walks away from this fight with good health, millions of fans, and 100 million dollars. I'm sure he is doing fine.
You calling Mohammad Ali an idiot?
Boxing didn't get famous because of defensive fighters, it got famous because of aggressive fighters. To be honest I've never seen a highlight reel full of defensive maneuvers. If you think people are watch boxing for the "sweet science" and "because they like the game of chess" then you must be a true fan! Me on the other hand, I'm a casual and in my opinion the fight sucked! Chess also sucks and I don't watch that either coz it's boring!
For the record, if you want to make a product that's going to be high grossing and truely global, then you have to cater to the casuals. If not, just be happy pleasing the fans. I'm sure the fans will be pleased with Mayweather vs Pacquiao, but the casuals will never buy this crap in such volumes ever again. Congrats to Pacman and Mayweather for capitalising on the hype!
Lol at all the so called "experts" coming forth to the defense of Mayweather. Floyd is the reason the scoring in boxing is a joke. He can hug all day, cherry pick the judge and get no point deduction. So the pressure is always on the guy with the aggressive style.
No wonder boxing has lost viewership over the years if a guy like Floyd is what's considered a great boxer. Lmao!
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
it is funny listening to people spout off about a boxer when they watch less boxing in a year than guys like Kevin Iole watch in a week.
The problem is that boxing is a deader than SC2 because it's so.... offensive to casuals. For casuals this fight is supposed to be best boxing has to offer, and it blew chunks, though it played out exactly like anyone who is semi knowledgeable would expect it to. At end the day, a bunch people around 2 dudes made a ton of money, everyone else goes back to (maybe even more so) dgaf about boxing, and that's a shame.
Casuals #1 choice in old boxing fights to watch is 1985-88 Mike Tyson. Short fights with brutal. vicious endings. The UFC caters to this exact thing. Boxing does not.
People want to see Brock Lesnar staggering around half awake. They want to see Alexander Gustafsson removed from the consciousness of this earth AND they don't even want to wait 10 minutes to see it happen.
The UFC is giving the people what they want. These various boxing promoters are not. Just look at the under card for thIS $100 PPV.
They robbed their best customers of $100 without even wearing a mask.
who cares. floyd still making money and there's lots of good boxers around. casual fans always want the same bloodlust and game of throones drama they can eat a dick lmfao
On May 04 2015 23:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: quite a bit of complaining about how boring the fight was . most of the experts i briefly listened to correctly predicted how this fight would go. it was kinda meh.... and a bit of a sleeper. i didn't hear a single expert claim we'd be getting some kind of george foreman style brawl.
to the complainers: welcome to the world of Floyd Mayweather.. he's been doing this schtick for years.
What I don't like is that casuals apparently think that what Mayweather is doing is easy to do (like some cheese on the ladder or something), or that he has some kind of physical ability far above his opponents. Well, neither is true: Mayweather is not a physical monster, he has better reach than Pacquiao, but it's not out of this world either..., and that style of defense is really NOT easy to do at all. Just look at how he dodges everything while guarding relatively low...
it is funny listening to people spout off about a boxer when they watch less boxing in a year than guys like Kevin Iole watch in a week.
The problem is that boxing is a deader than SC2 because it's so.... offensive to casuals. For casuals this fight is supposed to be best boxing has to offer, and it blew chunks, though it played out exactly like anyone who is semi knowledgeable would expect it to. At end the day, a bunch people around 2 dudes made a ton of money, everyone else goes back to (maybe even more so) dgaf about boxing, and that's a shame.
Casuals #1 choice in old boxing fights to watch is 1985-88 Mike Tyson. Short fights with brutal. vicious endings. The UFC caters to this exact thing. Boxing does not.
People want to see Brock Lesnar staggering around half awake. They want to see Alexander Gustafsson removed from the consciousness of this earth AND they don't even want to wait 10 minutes to see it happen.
The UFC is giving the people what they want. These various boxing promoters are not. Just look at the under card for thIS $100 PPV.
They robbed their best customers of $100 without even wearing a mask.
It really depends though, UFC ground fighting can get pretty technical which won't always cater to the casual fan.
On May 05 2015 09:36 Wangsta wrote: So many people attacking Mayweather and defending Pacquiao. Really silly IMO.
I don't like Mayweather, but he's one of the greatest boxers of all time (maybe even best ever, who knows). He did not run away from the Pacquiao, he outclassed him and positioned himself correctly for the win. Only an idiot would stand still while another dude is trying to punch you in the face.
Also, please stop feeling bad for Pacquiao. He walks away from this fight with good health, millions of fans, and 100 million dollars. I'm sure he is doing fine.
People who says Mayweather is one of the greatest of all time makes me sad really. Either you never watched much boxing, or you never watched any boxing, but anyway you don't know what boxing is like. It was a clash of strength and will, it was about honor and pride (just look at what happened when Duran refused to fight and put his gloves down in his second fight against Ray Leonard). It has become nothing but a boring technical matter that revolve around three judges and a scoring system that fucking suck.
And all the people going back at those stats like they are meaningful : mayweather won many matches with shitty stats... Maidana for exemple (if I recall well) had higher total punch thrown and land chances... does it mean maidana won the fight ? Just using the arguments that favor your own bias. The question is : who dominated the ring, who hurt the other more, who imposed his tempo. The problem is that shitty boxers like Mayweather, while impressive from a technical standpoint, always run and dodge barely trying to hit and thus can't be judged with the normal pre "mayweather" ways to judge a fight (that would basically be : give the round to the agressor unless there is a knockdown - of course, that's an historic simplification, I know full well some fight were not scored this way, but most were). In essence, Mayweather and the likes imposed a new way to judge boxing matches, a way that promote a boring style and technicity over guts. Good job, you won yourself ton of money, and you ruined the sport. And that's why I didn't pay for the mayweather fight (even tho it was on my birthday and even tho I always loved boxing for various reasons) and why I will never watch boxing again unless they do something about the rules.
On May 05 2015 11:43 Jerubaal wrote: I wonder what people at lower levels of boxing would say about Mayweather. His style needs a certain requirement of respect from the referee and judges. I wouldn't be surprised if at lower, especially amateur, someone fighting like him wouldn't get cold treatment.
In Tae Kwon Do, if you start trying to clinch too much, the referee gives you a few warnings and then starts deducting points.
In boxing too ! At least it's supposed to be that way : it's just that referees refuse to deduce points to mayweather because he "money". He is more than any fighter, he is a promoter, and more than that the biggest one at the moment. Would you make decisions that could potentially hurt your boss ?
On May 03 2015 20:38 arb wrote: I almost bought this and watched it considering the last boxing match i watched was Mike Tyson vs Lennix Lewis lolol.
well, when Lennox Lewis weighed as much as Floyd Mayweather he fought just like him. i think that was in 1978.
But back then Lewis was not considered the best ever - by anyone. He said so himself at the end of the Tyson fight : he wasn't mature, and he "matured" way after.
Mayweather is damn good but he's no SRR or SRL or ALI.
Anyway in an attempt to prove the human race is insane (repeating the same actions expecting different results) there's this...
Despite Pacquiao being expected to miss anywhere between four and 12 months due to shoulder surgery, per Lance Pugmire of the Los Angeles Times and Dan Rafael of ESPN.com, Mayweather reportedly texted ESPN's Stephen A. Smith on Tuesday stating he would be willing to fight Pac-Man again when he's healthy, per SportsCenter on Twitter.
On May 06 2015 02:44 GreenHorizons wrote: Mayweather is damn good but he's no SRR or SRL or ALI.
Or Chavez, or Duran, or Tyson, Roy Jones Junior, or Holyfield, etc. He doesn't have what it takes to be a great champion, because he never had a fight that's worth anything. He was never in a position to prove something, agreed that might not be his fault : it's the judge who let him do his antics. I even remember a fight where the judge pushed away mayweather and his opponent and says "calm yourself" - what the actual fuck ? If you look at Pacquiao's history, he at least has some amazing fights (the three fights against morales for exemple). Just ask yourself, which mayweather rematch would be any good ? None.
On May 06 2015 02:44 GreenHorizons wrote: Mayweather is damn good but he's no SRR or SRL or ALI.
Or Chavez, or Duran, or Tyson, Roy Jones Junior, or Holyfield, etc. He doesn't have what it takes to be a great champion, because he never had a fight that's worth anything. He was never in a position to prove something, agreed that might not be his fault : it's the judge who let him do his antics. I even remember a fight where the judge pushed away mayweather and his opponent and says "calm yourself" - what the actual fuck ? If you look at Pacquiao's history, he at least has some amazing fights (the three fights against morales for exemple). Just ask yourself, which mayweather rematch would be any good ? None.
kind of similar to Larry Holmes. he went 48-0. a great defensive fighter who would clutch and grab all fight long. Holmes basically backed up behind a jab and clutched anyone who got too close.
the people thinking Mayweather manipulated the rules and judges.. i do not think that is correct. Larry Holmes was disliked by the general public and he grabbed and held and hugged as much or more than Mayweather. At one point Holmes was 48-0 and held the unified title for 5+ years. talk about ZZZZzzzz......
the heavyweight championship basically went ... (Ali, Frazier, Foreman,Ali)-Holmes-Tyson. as you go from 1970 to 1990. All these fighters are exciting EXCEPT Holmes i think Holmes was really, really bad for business...
but they still let him clutch, and grab, and hug as much or more than Mayweather.
so i think according to boxing standards Mayweather's tactics are considered legal and have been legal for a long, long time.
On May 06 2015 02:44 GreenHorizons wrote: Mayweather is damn good but he's no SRR or SRL or ALI.
Or Chavez, or Duran, or Tyson, Roy Jones Junior, or Holyfield, etc. He doesn't have what it takes to be a great champion, because he never had a fight that's worth anything. He was never in a position to prove something, agreed that might not be his fault : it's the judge who let him do his antics. I even remember a fight where the judge pushed away mayweather and his opponent and says "calm yourself" - what the actual fuck ? If you look at Pacquiao's history, he at least has some amazing fights (the three fights against morales for exemple). Just ask yourself, which mayweather rematch would be any good ? None.
kind of similar to Larry Holmes. he went 48-0. a great defensive fighter who would clutch and grab all fight long. Holmes basically backed up behind a jab and clutched anyone who got too close.
the people thinking Mayweather manipulated the rules and judges.. i do not think that is correct. Larry Holmes was disliked by the general public and he grabbed and held and hugged as much or more than Mayweather. At one point Holmes was 48-0 and held the unified title for 5+ years. talk about ZZZZzzzz......
the heavyweight championship basically went ... (Ali, Frazier, Foreman,Ali)-Holmes-Tyson. as you go from 1970 to 1990. All these fighters are exciting EXCEPT Holmes i think Holmes was really, really bad for business...
but they still let him clutch, and grab, and hug as much or more than Mayweather.
so i think according to boxing standards Mayweather's tactics are considered legal and have been legal for a long, long time.
I don't entirely agree. It's true that there are some correlation, but Larry Holmes was much more agressive (not difficult it's true), didn't hug as much and had much more punching power and knock outs. He was a defensive boxer, but still a boxer, not a full fledged dancing squadron. Look how he shut down the at the time undefeated Marvis Frazier. It's really difficult for a heavy weight to actually box like Mayweather anyway, they are too big to be quick enough to dodge and move so efficiently. Ali was one of the quickest, and he took so many blows... well you know. I actually believe it is the main reason as to why heavy weight is the most favored weight. Holmes biggest problem was that he came after Ali.
over the years i've watched parts of ~10 of Holmes fights and he clutched and grabbed and held so much.. i just found another fight to watch. maybe he was more aggressive in his other fights...
considering he is a heavyweight .. his fights were long.
i decided to do some digging.
during Holmes ' prime he was in 25 consecutive title fights. 13 of those fights went 10+ rounds. 10 went to either a 15 round or 12 round decision.
i'm not including his 26th title fight.. which occurred in 1988.
In that fight he clutched, and, grabbed, and ran and i really mean he ran... like full speed. Mike Tyson hunted him down and cut him off and destroyed him in 4 rounds. At that time, 4 Rounds was a long fight for Tyson. Earlier that year Tyson defeated the 31-0 Spinks in 90 seconds.
So I don't think we can really include this 1988 fight with Tyson to assess Holmes' defensiveness as a fighter.
if i were running boxing and my goal were maximum profits i'd switch from boxing gloves to UFC gloves
On May 06 2015 04:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: thanks for your reply.
i've watched parts of 10 of Holmes fights and he clutched and grabbed and held so much.. i just found another fight to watch. maybe he was more aggressive in his other fights...
considering he is a heavyweight .. his fights were long.
i decided to do some digging.
during Holmes ' prime he was in 25 consecutive title fights. 13 of those fights went 10+ rounds. 10 went to either a 15 round or 12 round decision.
i'm not including his 26th title fight.. which occurred in 1988.
In that fight he clutched, and, grabbed, and ran and i really mean he ran... like full speed. Mike Tyson hunted him down and cut him off and destroyed him in 4 rounds. At that time, 4 Rounds was a long fight for Tyson. Earlier that year Tyson defeated the 31-0 Spinks in 90 seconds.
So I don't think we can really include this 1988 fight with Tyson to assess Holmes' defensiveness as a fighter.
Yeah I don't think Larry holmes ran less than Mayweather. Mayweather actually do not run that much, except maybe in the later round, but he is very passive (he dodge more than just running around). I would love to see the number of punch thrown on average, I'll try to dig it later, but I'm sure Larry holmes is higher despite the fact that he is a heavy weight (especially power punch, Mayweather's jabs are a joke, made just for the judges to believe he actually did something).
On May 06 2015 04:51 wei2coolman wrote: lol, it's one thing to dislike mayweather's choice of pointfighting in boxing, it's another to say he's not a great champ.
I don't think so. I gave a perfectly objective argument to support my take on this : which mayweather fights ever needed a rematch ? You can argue that it is because he outclassed all his opponents and I could accept that argument, but it still makes my point true. It takes two to tango, weither you believe mayweather is more a dancer than a boxer, or that he outclassed all his opponent, he never had a fight that was good enough to be placed remotly close to the best boxers. Another proof of that : mayweather is, in my opinion, better than manny pacquiao right now (maybe not prime but that's a stupid discussion) but pacquiao won more title/recognition (not talking about belt, but about fighter of the decade / years, or fight of year, etc.) because he had amazing fights and strong opposition. It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity (and I believe it is because he has a shitty style of boxing that abuse the flaws of boxing's rules). He is only known because he cries out loud everywhere that he is the best and that he earns more money than anyone (like a true member of the lumpen proletariat).
Just compare with the real deal, he is a fucking star and a hall of fame boxer despite being outweighted in many of his best fights. What made him are those fights, not his overall records/stats (which are in fact average compared to many other great fighters) : he has gone toe to toe with the greatest of his generation, and always proved he could win. Just go watch his fights against riddick bowe for exemple ... legendary.
Now I know half the world wants Manny to win so I'm being super skeptical of this (and I'm certainly not willing to dig through the fight and score it myself). Has any other replay analysis come to light?
On May 06 2015 04:51 wei2coolman wrote: lol, it's one thing to dislike mayweather's choice of pointfighting in boxing, it's another to say he's not a great champ.
I don't think so. I gave a perfectly objective argument to support my take on this : which mayweather fights ever needed a rematch ? You can argue that it is because he outclassed all his opponents and I could accept that argument, but it still makes my point true. It takes two to tango, weither you believe mayweather is more a dancer than a boxer, or that he outclassed all his opponent, he never had a fight that was good enough to be placed remotly close to the best boxers. Another proof of that : mayweather is, in my opinion, better than manny pacquiao right now (maybe not prime but that's a stupid discussion) but pacquiao won more title/recognition (not talking about belt, but about fighter of the decade / years, or fight of year, etc.) because he had amazing fights and strong opposition. It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity (and I believe it is because he has a shitty style of boxing that abuse the flaws of boxing's rules). He is only known because he cries out loud everywhere that he is the best and that he earns more money than anyone (like a true member of the lumpen proletariat).
Just compare with the real deal, he is a fucking star and a hall of fame boxer despite being outweighted in many of his best fights. What made him are those fights, not his overall records/stats (which are in fact average compared to many other great fighters) : he has gone toe to toe with the greatest of his generation, and always proved he could win. Just go watch his fights against riddick bowe for exemple ... legendary.
It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity
Meh. You could make the same argument of any boxer so good that nobody in his generation can remotely put him in danger in a ring (surprise! like Mayweather). I guess it's a compliment to him if he's so good that people start to say boxing is a badly designed game, while being around for millenia :D.
Btw, people are also saying, in the same exact reasoning pattern, that Wladimir Klitschko is not a GOAT and that he's boring because he does not have strong opposition. I suggest you put on boxing gloves and go show him some opposition then.
On May 06 2015 04:51 wei2coolman wrote: lol, it's one thing to dislike mayweather's choice of pointfighting in boxing, it's another to say he's not a great champ.
I don't think so. I gave a perfectly objective argument to support my take on this : which mayweather fights ever needed a rematch ? You can argue that it is because he outclassed all his opponents and I could accept that argument, but it still makes my point true. It takes two to tango, weither you believe mayweather is more a dancer than a boxer, or that he outclassed all his opponent, he never had a fight that was good enough to be placed remotly close to the best boxers. Another proof of that : mayweather is, in my opinion, better than manny pacquiao right now (maybe not prime but that's a stupid discussion) but pacquiao won more title/recognition (not talking about belt, but about fighter of the decade / years, or fight of year, etc.) because he had amazing fights and strong opposition. It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity (and I believe it is because he has a shitty style of boxing that abuse the flaws of boxing's rules). He is only known because he cries out loud everywhere that he is the best and that he earns more money than anyone (like a true member of the lumpen proletariat).
Just compare with the real deal, he is a fucking star and a hall of fame boxer despite being outweighted in many of his best fights. What made him are those fights, not his overall records/stats (which are in fact average compared to many other great fighters) : he has gone toe to toe with the greatest of his generation, and always proved he could win. Just go watch his fights against riddick bowe for exemple ... legendary.
It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity
Meh. You could make the same argument of any boxer so good that nobody in his generation can remotely put him in danger in a ring (surprise! like Mayweather). I guess it's a compliment to him if he's so good that people start to say boxing is a badly designed game, while being around for millenia :D.
Btw, people are also saying, in the same exact reasoning pattern, that Wladimir Klitschko is not a GOAT and that he's boring because he does not have strong opposition. I suggest you put on boxing gloves and go show him some opposition then.
Wladimir Klitschko is really different tho : he has a huge weight advantage over his category, due to the new technique of body enhancement most notably.
Also : - boxing was always plagued by corruption and fixed matches (so the fact that the rules are old doesn't make them good) ; - boxing today is really different due to various things : money, culture, relationship between fighters and promoters, all things that evolved a lot in the last ten years (mostly at the end of tyson / lennox fight) ; - I don't believe mayweather is that good, but I guess that's a subjective judgement. Are you implying Mayweather is better than Ali ?
Nice, Amir Khan gets Mayweather next Now you will see Floyd tested, 28 year old young gun in Amir with stupidly quick hand speed and a trainer who is not delusional. Also at Wembley in front of 80,000 fans nice.
Will have £100 on Khan, just need hope Khan shows us some more reasons why he has the key to beat Floyd at the end of the month when he fights.
On May 06 2015 04:51 wei2coolman wrote: lol, it's one thing to dislike mayweather's choice of pointfighting in boxing, it's another to say he's not a great champ.
I don't think so. I gave a perfectly objective argument to support my take on this : which mayweather fights ever needed a rematch ? You can argue that it is because he outclassed all his opponents and I could accept that argument, but it still makes my point true. It takes two to tango, weither you believe mayweather is more a dancer than a boxer, or that he outclassed all his opponent, he never had a fight that was good enough to be placed remotly close to the best boxers. Another proof of that : mayweather is, in my opinion, better than manny pacquiao right now (maybe not prime but that's a stupid discussion) but pacquiao won more title/recognition (not talking about belt, but about fighter of the decade / years, or fight of year, etc.) because he had amazing fights and strong opposition. It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity (and I believe it is because he has a shitty style of boxing that abuse the flaws of boxing's rules). He is only known because he cries out loud everywhere that he is the best and that he earns more money than anyone (like a true member of the lumpen proletariat).
Just compare with the real deal, he is a fucking star and a hall of fame boxer despite being outweighted in many of his best fights. What made him are those fights, not his overall records/stats (which are in fact average compared to many other great fighters) : he has gone toe to toe with the greatest of his generation, and always proved he could win. Just go watch his fights against riddick bowe for exemple ... legendary.
It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity
Meh. You could make the same argument of any boxer so good that nobody in his generation can remotely put him in danger in a ring (surprise! like Mayweather). I guess it's a compliment to him if he's so good that people start to say boxing is a badly designed game, while being around for millenia :D.
Btw, people are also saying, in the same exact reasoning pattern, that Wladimir Klitschko is not a GOAT and that he's boring because he does not have strong opposition. I suggest you put on boxing gloves and go show him some opposition then.
Wladimir Klitschko is really different tho : he has a huge weight advantage over his category, due to the new technique of body enhancement most notably.
Also : - boxing was always plagued by corruption and fixed matches (so the fact that the rules are old doesn't make them good) ; - boxing today is really different due to various things : money, culture, relationship between fighters and promoters, all things that evolved a lot in the last ten years (mostly at the end of tyson / lennox fight) ; - I don't believe mayweather is that good, but I guess that's a subjective judgement. Are you implying Mayweather is better than Ali ?
I'm not implying anything, I just think Mayweather is unfathomably better than some in thread would like to believe (not necessarily you, you seem like a boxing enthusiast). I don't really like how we disregard his achievements so quickly, just because his style doesn't fit the current norm of what's flashy and cool.
On May 05 2015 19:08 papaz wrote: Lol at all the so called "experts" coming forth to the defense of Mayweather. Floyd is the reason the scoring in boxing is a joke. He can hug all day, cherry pick the judge and get no point deduction. So the pressure is always on the guy with the aggressive style.
No wonder boxing has lost viewership over the years if a guy like Floyd is what's considered a great boxer. Lmao!
Its not Floyds fault that Pac-Man couldnt hit him. Everyone knew what Floyd would do. Everyone watched to see if Pac man could exploit Floyds style. He couldnt. He deserved to lose.
I like Floyds idea of having a rematch in hostile territory (China) for his 50 win breaking rocky's streak.
On May 05 2015 19:08 papaz wrote: Lol at all the so called "experts" coming forth to the defense of Mayweather. Floyd is the reason the scoring in boxing is a joke. He can hug all day, cherry pick the judge and get no point deduction. So the pressure is always on the guy with the aggressive style.
No wonder boxing has lost viewership over the years if a guy like Floyd is what's considered a great boxer. Lmao!
Its not Floyds fault that Pac-Man couldnt hit him. Everyone knew what Floyd would do. Everyone watched to see if Pac man could exploit Floyds style. He couldnt. He deserved to lose.
I like Floyds idea of having a rematch in hostile territory (China) for his 50 win breaking rocky's streak.
But boxing is not a sport where a fighter tries to hit the other and lose if he can't. It's a fight confrontation between two fighters, and the winner is the one who dominate the fight.
On May 05 2015 19:08 papaz wrote: Lol at all the so called "experts" coming forth to the defense of Mayweather. Floyd is the reason the scoring in boxing is a joke. He can hug all day, cherry pick the judge and get no point deduction. So the pressure is always on the guy with the aggressive style.
No wonder boxing has lost viewership over the years if a guy like Floyd is what's considered a great boxer. Lmao!
Its not Floyds fault that Pac-Man couldnt hit him. Everyone knew what Floyd would do. Everyone watched to see if Pac man could exploit Floyds style. He couldnt. He deserved to lose.
I like Floyds idea of having a rematch in hostile territory (China) for his 50 win breaking rocky's streak.
But boxing is not a sport where a fighter tries to hit the other and lose if he can't. It's a fight confrontation between two fighters, and the winner is the one who dominate the fight.
On May 05 2015 19:08 papaz wrote: Lol at all the so called "experts" coming forth to the defense of Mayweather. Floyd is the reason the scoring in boxing is a joke. He can hug all day, cherry pick the judge and get no point deduction. So the pressure is always on the guy with the aggressive style.
No wonder boxing has lost viewership over the years if a guy like Floyd is what's considered a great boxer. Lmao!
Its not Floyds fault that Pac-Man couldnt hit him. Everyone knew what Floyd would do. Everyone watched to see if Pac man could exploit Floyds style. He couldnt. He deserved to lose.
I like Floyds idea of having a rematch in hostile territory (China) for his 50 win breaking rocky's streak.
But boxing is not a sport where a fighter tries to hit the other and lose if he can't. It's a fight confrontation between two fighters, and the winner is the one who dominate the fight.
No, that's what fighting is. boxing =/= fighting.
That's because you don't know what dominate means. You don't need to kill your opponent in boxing, you can dominate space, dominate by technic, but it's not a one way fight, where ONE fighter try to hit the other, it's a one versus one. A defensive player who barely tries to hit, who didn't hurt his opponent and who run around should not win with a majority decision, unless he knock down his opponent with one or two good hit : bottom line one fighter has to be better in more than just dancing to win, which is PRETTY OBVIOUS. boxing =/= dancing
On May 06 2015 04:51 wei2coolman wrote: lol, it's one thing to dislike mayweather's choice of pointfighting in boxing, it's another to say he's not a great champ.
I don't think so. I gave a perfectly objective argument to support my take on this : which mayweather fights ever needed a rematch ? You can argue that it is because he outclassed all his opponents and I could accept that argument, but it still makes my point true. It takes two to tango, weither you believe mayweather is more a dancer than a boxer, or that he outclassed all his opponent, he never had a fight that was good enough to be placed remotly close to the best boxers. Another proof of that : mayweather is, in my opinion, better than manny pacquiao right now (maybe not prime but that's a stupid discussion) but pacquiao won more title/recognition (not talking about belt, but about fighter of the decade / years, or fight of year, etc.) because he had amazing fights and strong opposition. It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity (and I believe it is because he has a shitty style of boxing that abuse the flaws of boxing's rules). He is only known because he cries out loud everywhere that he is the best and that he earns more money than anyone (like a true member of the lumpen proletariat).
Just compare with the real deal, he is a fucking star and a hall of fame boxer despite being outweighted in many of his best fights. What made him are those fights, not his overall records/stats (which are in fact average compared to many other great fighters) : he has gone toe to toe with the greatest of his generation, and always proved he could win. Just go watch his fights against riddick bowe for exemple ... legendary.
It's in the struggle that one see a true champion, he never had that opportunity
Meh. You could make the same argument of any boxer so good that nobody in his generation can remotely put him in danger in a ring (surprise! like Mayweather). I guess it's a compliment to him if he's so good that people start to say boxing is a badly designed game, while being around for millenia :D.
Btw, people are also saying, in the same exact reasoning pattern, that Wladimir Klitschko is not a GOAT and that he's boring because he does not have strong opposition. I suggest you put on boxing gloves and go show him some opposition then.
Wladimir Klitschko is really different tho : he has a huge weight advantage over his category, due to the new technique of body enhancement most notably.
Also : - boxing was always plagued by corruption and fixed matches (so the fact that the rules are old doesn't make them good) ; - boxing today is really different due to various things : money, culture, relationship between fighters and promoters, all things that evolved a lot in the last ten years (mostly at the end of tyson / lennox fight) ; - I don't believe mayweather is that good, but I guess that's a subjective judgement. Are you implying Mayweather is better than Ali ?
I'm not implying anything, I just think Mayweather is unfathomably better than some in thread would like to believe (not necessarily you, you seem like a boxing enthusiast). I don't really like how we disregard his achievements so quickly, just because his style doesn't fit the current norm of what's flashy and cool.
He is better at dancing than many legendary boxers yeah. That does not make him a boxer on par with those legends tho, unless you don't understand what is boxing, or what has been boxing in history. It's way more than just technicity, thankfully. Many people don't know that, but Evander Holyfield is one of the most crafty and technic fighter that ever fought in the heavy weight, and was a pretty small heavy weight at that (he had to train hard in order to gain muscle and enter the heavy weight division, unlike Tyson who, despite being quite small, always weighted a ton) - in this regard much like Mayweather, but obviously a lot less efficient, quick, and with less defensive ability. Yet he was much more than that and today almost no one remember him for his technicality.
you've just reduced all of mayweather's tactics to 'dancing' but he was pretty aggressive in the pac fight. he was able to effectively land his straight right all night.
I don't know how you can call what mayweather did "dancing" without making pacman look like a joke, when mayweather threw more punches, and landed more punches. lol.
Also, I would suggest comparing Mayweather with something other than the best heavyweights. I mean, sure, "pound for pound" is a thing, but boxing looks a lot different in welterweight and heavyweight...
On May 07 2015 09:46 ZenithM wrote: Also, I would suggest comparing Mayweather with something other than the best heavyweights. I mean, sure, "pound for pound" is a thing, but boxing looks a lot different in welterweight and heavyweight...
Who is the one who has been saying Mayweather is one of the best ? And you can compare to many other fighters : Chavez, Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Hagler are all on the same weight and they are all more agressive.
On May 07 2015 08:55 oneofthem wrote: you've just reduced all of mayweather's tactics to 'dancing' but he was pretty aggressive in the pac fight. he was able to effectively land his straight right all night.
I didn't even watched the fight. Maybe read I wrote before.... I said his style is rubbish and destroy the sport. Pacman may suck one fight, he proved himself before (throwing many punch, being mobile and always agressive) - Mayweather barely throw any punch in all his fights, and always lay back and just steal round with some little jabs. Just makes me laugh that people argue that he is one of the best when in fact he will be barely remembered as anything more than a cash cow. The sport will live on hopefully.
On May 07 2015 08:58 wei2coolman wrote: I don't know how you can call what mayweather did "dancing" without making pacman look like a joke, when mayweather threw more punches, and landed more punches. lol.
Well records are quite unclear. Mayweather did throw more than pac, but still not much compared to a normal fight. And secondly, most people accept Pacman was never in danger - stats have a lot of limit. They are maybe an indicative of the style of the fight more than a clear indicator of a winner (I remember you that Mayweather threw less punch than most of his opponent, and sometime still had a lower landing rate, like against Maidana I believe, but it does not mean he lost thoses fight, obviously).
On May 08 2015 00:44 ZenithM wrote: I think you missed the word heavyweight in my post. Anyway, I do think Mayweather is one of the best so your point still stands, I guess.
Edit: Man, I didn't read the part where you said you fucking didn't watch the fight. Hahaha why am I even arguing..
For the sake of the argument. I watched a cam from afar for like a minute and it was even more boring than doing nothing.
On May 08 2015 00:32 WhiteDog wrote: I said his style is rubbish and destroy the sport. Pacman may suck one fight, he proved himself before (throwing many punch, being mobile and always agressive) - Mayweather barely throw any punch in all his fights, and always lay back and just steal round with some little jabs.
its up to the sanctioning bodies to change the rules.. Mayweather is doing whatever it takes within the rules to win.
however, if u believe in the traditional rules of boxing then no rules should change. And guys like Mayweather and Larry Holmes will be able to go 48-0 in the most boring way imaginable. By backing up behind a jab and pot-shotting any incoming aggression.
Holmes went 48-0 and defended the Heavyweight title 20 times. And Yet, I've never heard an up and coming fighter ever say "i'm the next Larry Holmes".
Expect Mayweather to be remembered the same way Larry Holmes is remembered. History will be unkind to both guys.
On May 08 2015 00:32 WhiteDog wrote: I said his style is rubbish and destroy the sport. Pacman may suck one fight, he proved himself before (throwing many punch, being mobile and always agressive) - Mayweather barely throw any punch in all his fights, and always lay back and just steal round with some little jabs.
its up to the sanctioning bodies to change the rules.. Mayweather is doing whatever it takes within the rules to win.
however, if u believe in the traditional rules of boxing then no rules should change. And guys like Mayweather and Larry Holmes will be able to go 48-0 in the most boring way imaginable. By backing up behind a jab and pot-shotting any incoming aggression.
Holmes went 48-0 and defended the Heavyweight title 20 times. And Yet, I've never heard an up and coming fighter ever say "i'm the next Larry Holmes".
Expect Mayweather to be remembered the same way Larry Holmes is remembered. History will be unkind to both guys.
It already is. Floyds mouth does more work than his hands. Unless its women infront of him
to see it in practical application just look up "Mike Tyson vs Larry Holmes - Full Fight 1988" on youtube.com the commentator sounds like he is going to jizz all over himself
Thank you, anonymous stranger, who mentioned Gennadi Golovkin in this thread.
I watched the fight last weekend and that was quite some entertainment.
The post-fight press has it's burns to deliver too
The Guardian:
What is more significant, though, is the Kazakh’s determination to fight twice more in 2015 – against anyone willing to step into the ring with him, from Miguel Cotto to Saúl Álvarez, to Andre Ward to Floyd Mayweather.
Now a couple of those bouts – Ward and Mayweather – almost certainly will not happen. Ward, [...], and Mayweather, the welterweight king, wouldn’t share a ring with Triple G if he were armed with a nuclear bomb. Even at catchweight.