On March 12 2020 08:17 Hyperbola wrote:
Then the obvious answer is to make resleeving less expensive. Not kill people. I'm glad you agree with me that it's a societal issue and that Quell is retarded.
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On March 12 2020 07:21 Erasme wrote:
If anyone could afford a resleeving at any time, then sure shes retarded, but that's clearly not the case. Also ye i'm fairly certain sleeves are harder to find than a mortgage or a house in that universe, considering the amount of unsleeved stacks and the amount of abandonned/destructed houses.
I find it funny that you accuse me of not watching the show, and yet take the example of a 150 years old artist that doesn't exist in the show. Maybe you can rewatch season 1 and season 2 and find a better example. (also arguing that yakuza arent inherently shit is dumb)
As far as I understand it, Quell is for the return of natural life and death. I find it weird you chose to focus on the death part. Also calling me a nazi because I believe that - in this show - immortals people with incredible wealth, who abuse their power on a daily basis, total control over worlds, should die of natural causes is incredibly moronic.
On March 12 2020 05:19 Hyperbola wrote:
Have you even watched the show, or are you just trolling?
Kovacs lived for quite some time before he even got pulled into the future. First he was a soldier, then a terrorist, then he became a mercenary. Not corrupted.
Yakuza guy wasn't living any kind of lie. He was an ordinary yakuza guy. He harbored guilt due to killing off the elders but that's not "corruption". Seems like he was living a perfectly normal life before Season 2.
As for Poe, his data was corrupted due to him being destroyed in season 1. Not the same as human "corruption" which basically means your morals are compromised and you become a shit person. A completely different concept.
You're acting like virtually no one lives for 100 years in the future. How can you even begin to make that assumption? Sleeves are expensive, yes, but if you only have to switch between them every few decades then why is it so unfeasible to think that many people have lived longer than 100 years? How many times do people nowadays switch houses throughout their single lifetime? Do you think sleeves are going to be more expensive than a mortgage on a house?
Once again, the meths are not using their immortality to control the general population, they are using a corrupt system in combination with their vast wealth to control the general population. This is a societal problem. Societal problems are not fixed by killing people. What if you have an artist that has lived for 150 years and has been honing his craft and wants to continue to explore his art? Kill him because he's too old? What if you have a doctor that has been working to save lives for hundreds of years? Also kill him? I cannot believe you don't see how mind mindbogglingly retarded Quell's """"solution"""" is. It's basically Hitler's final solution. I know the words "Hilter" and "Nazi" get thrown around a lot on the internet but here is probably the first time it's applicable. You are literally arguing in favor of Hitler's ideology.
On March 12 2020 00:30 Erasme wrote:
Takeshi spent a long time in a time out so he hasn't really lived a long life.
Poe got corrupted eventually, leading to his failures in s2.
Old yakuza guy lived a lie for the most part of his life so ye pretty corrupted there
We didn't see the same piles of used stacks ? Life literally has no value anymore when you can find piles upon piles of "human memory".
Genociding billions of old people is not the goal, because first thing is that there are no billions of immortal people, just a select few. Second thing is that those same people are using the immortality as a way to control the general population into working their whole life just to be able to get a new body to work their whole new life (maybe).
On March 10 2020 09:33 Hyperbola wrote:
If "living too long = corruption" is what the series was trying to portray then they really did a bad job. There are many characters which have lived for a long time and are still good people. Poe is a good example, although you could argue he's an AI. Takeshi is a good example - he's jaded but still has a heart of gold. The old yakuza dude has been alive for centuries and held true to his ideals. Just because some people turn shitty doesn't mean that all people turn shitty. I can't believe I have to argue this but genociding billions of old people is not the right approach to solving society's ills. It's like cutting off a limb because you got a scratch. Society's problems require social solutions - like for this universe it would be regulations on monopolies and corruption. But I suppose that's too boring for a TV show so... genocide it is!
Furthermore, meths can live forever, yes, but normal people also still have access to stack technology. We've seen various normal people switch sleeves on many occasions. You don't have to be ultra rich to have functional immortality. Meths do have a special perk called "remote backup" which allows them to basically have extra lives even if their stack is busted. However, provided you're not some idiot that constantly gets into firefights on the daily, your stack should be just fine for a long time.
On March 08 2020 22:44 Erasme wrote:
Hmm, the issue with eternal life as you saw in the first season, is that anyone living long enough will get corrupted eventually. Moreso, eternal life in this particuliar universe seems like something the ultra rich (meth) hold over the rest of the population. Instead of eternal life, it sounds more like eternal damnation.
But that is a very american thing to imagine yourself as the top 0.01% of the population in a serie instead of a normal schmuck :p
Hmm, the issue with eternal life as you saw in the first season, is that anyone living long enough will get corrupted eventually. Moreso, eternal life in this particuliar universe seems like something the ultra rich (meth) hold over the rest of the population. Instead of eternal life, it sounds more like eternal damnation.
But that is a very american thing to imagine yourself as the top 0.01% of the population in a serie instead of a normal schmuck :p
If "living too long = corruption" is what the series was trying to portray then they really did a bad job. There are many characters which have lived for a long time and are still good people. Poe is a good example, although you could argue he's an AI. Takeshi is a good example - he's jaded but still has a heart of gold. The old yakuza dude has been alive for centuries and held true to his ideals. Just because some people turn shitty doesn't mean that all people turn shitty. I can't believe I have to argue this but genociding billions of old people is not the right approach to solving society's ills. It's like cutting off a limb because you got a scratch. Society's problems require social solutions - like for this universe it would be regulations on monopolies and corruption. But I suppose that's too boring for a TV show so... genocide it is!
Furthermore, meths can live forever, yes, but normal people also still have access to stack technology. We've seen various normal people switch sleeves on many occasions. You don't have to be ultra rich to have functional immortality. Meths do have a special perk called "remote backup" which allows them to basically have extra lives even if their stack is busted. However, provided you're not some idiot that constantly gets into firefights on the daily, your stack should be just fine for a long time.
Takeshi spent a long time in a time out so he hasn't really lived a long life.
Poe got corrupted eventually, leading to his failures in s2.
Old yakuza guy lived a lie for the most part of his life so ye pretty corrupted there
We didn't see the same piles of used stacks ? Life literally has no value anymore when you can find piles upon piles of "human memory".
Genociding billions of old people is not the goal, because first thing is that there are no billions of immortal people, just a select few. Second thing is that those same people are using the immortality as a way to control the general population into working their whole life just to be able to get a new body to work their whole new life (maybe).
Have you even watched the show, or are you just trolling?
Kovacs lived for quite some time before he even got pulled into the future. First he was a soldier, then a terrorist, then he became a mercenary. Not corrupted.
Yakuza guy wasn't living any kind of lie. He was an ordinary yakuza guy. He harbored guilt due to killing off the elders but that's not "corruption". Seems like he was living a perfectly normal life before Season 2.
As for Poe, his data was corrupted due to him being destroyed in season 1. Not the same as human "corruption" which basically means your morals are compromised and you become a shit person. A completely different concept.
You're acting like virtually no one lives for 100 years in the future. How can you even begin to make that assumption? Sleeves are expensive, yes, but if you only have to switch between them every few decades then why is it so unfeasible to think that many people have lived longer than 100 years? How many times do people nowadays switch houses throughout their single lifetime? Do you think sleeves are going to be more expensive than a mortgage on a house?
Once again, the meths are not using their immortality to control the general population, they are using a corrupt system in combination with their vast wealth to control the general population. This is a societal problem. Societal problems are not fixed by killing people. What if you have an artist that has lived for 150 years and has been honing his craft and wants to continue to explore his art? Kill him because he's too old? What if you have a doctor that has been working to save lives for hundreds of years? Also kill him? I cannot believe you don't see how mind mindbogglingly retarded Quell's """"solution"""" is. It's basically Hitler's final solution. I know the words "Hilter" and "Nazi" get thrown around a lot on the internet but here is probably the first time it's applicable. You are literally arguing in favor of Hitler's ideology.
If anyone could afford a resleeving at any time, then sure shes retarded, but that's clearly not the case. Also ye i'm fairly certain sleeves are harder to find than a mortgage or a house in that universe, considering the amount of unsleeved stacks and the amount of abandonned/destructed houses.
I find it funny that you accuse me of not watching the show, and yet take the example of a 150 years old artist that doesn't exist in the show. Maybe you can rewatch season 1 and season 2 and find a better example. (also arguing that yakuza arent inherently shit is dumb)
As far as I understand it, Quell is for the return of natural life and death. I find it weird you chose to focus on the death part. Also calling me a nazi because I believe that - in this show - immortals people with incredible wealth, who abuse their power on a daily basis, total control over worlds, should die of natural causes is incredibly moronic.
Then the obvious answer is to make resleeving less expensive. Not kill people. I'm glad you agree with me that it's a societal issue and that Quell is retarded.
Yes, that's really easy when the power is in the hands of people who have no incentive in making it cheaper. That's just like saying to make medication less expensive in the US. It's not expensive to make, but you don't have any choice.
Anyway, you have to understand that all the points i am making only have context in the show, with what I know from the show, from what it is showing to us. There's little point to argue about imaginary situations in an already imaginary world.